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Pandemonium (Surajang修羅場). Capablanca chess + Crazyhouse.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Sun, Jul 25, 2021 02:02 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 12:42 PM:

Thanks for the kind reply!


H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Jul 25, 2021 12:42 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 11:55 AM:

The rule that a Pawn dropped on 2nd rank regains his double push makes it a case of location-dependent moving, rather than an initial move. Position-dependent moving is not directly supported by the Interactive Diagram, but if can be emulated through automatic promotion: define multiple piece types for the piece with the variable move (all using the same symbol), and automatically 'promote' any of these types to the type that has the move belonging to the square they land on. This can be done by a user-supplied JavaScript function WeirdPromotion(). I did that in the Diagram I recently made for The Consuls.

In this case you would need two Pawn types, where only type 2 has the double push (and only type 1 promotes according to the normal mechanism on reaching the zone). Type 2 would always change into type 1 when it moves; both types would change into type 1 or 2 when they are dropped, depending on where they are dropped.

To make the promotion choice dependent on other pieces present on the board is problematic. The function WeirdPromotion() can also be used to veto promotions that would otherwise be possible. But the Diagram currently doesn't keep track of how many pieces of each type there are on the board. So it would have to scan the entire board to detect whether the proposed promotion piece is already there. This is possible, but would slow down the AI a lot. (But the AI currently cannoot handle games with drops anyway, so perhaps this is not a problem.)


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Sun, Jul 25, 2021 12:05 PM UTC in reply to Michael Nelson from Sat Jul 24 03:55 PM:

Nelson // Thank you very much !!

(´ ˘ `)

Pawns, unlike other pieces, can be promoted over and over again. The reason is to strengthen the Pawn's advance.

Pawns can be dropped at 1st rank, so they can defend more actively. (For example, like Shogi's Anaguma, you can move the King into a corner and surround it with Pawns.)

However, the Pawn's attack power is relatively weak. Compared to other promoted pieces, Pawn has a lot of limited movement, and I thought it needed appropriate compensation. That's unlimited promotions.

As the saying goes, 'Pawns are the soul of chess', I felt that Pawns needed a unique feature.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Sun, Jul 25, 2021 11:55 AM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from Sat Jul 24 10:35 AM:

H.G. //

Rule to advance 2 squares when moving to 2nd rank after a Pawn is dropped in 1st rank

Rule with restrictions on promotion (e.g., among the promoted pieces, only one piece with the same movement can exist on the board)

etc ?


Michael Nelson wrote on Sat, Jul 24, 2021 03:55 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

A very well thought and pleasing out blend of a Capablanca's Chess and Shogi. I am curious about the rule against having identical promoted pieces other than promoted Pawns. I consider it a small wart on a otherwise perfect design.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Jul 24, 2021 10:35 AM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 06:20 AM:

I have no idea what you are asking. What rules?


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Sat, Jul 24, 2021 06:20 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 01:44 AM:

Thank you !!

But can't some rules be implemented in an interactive diagram?


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Sat, Jul 24, 2021 01:44 AM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from Fri Jul 23 04:12 PM:

I added its code to the end of your Setup section. You can decide how you want to incorporate it into your page.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Fri, Jul 23, 2021 04:12 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 04:10 PM:

Is there any way I can attach this simulator to this page?

8ã……8...


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Fri, Jul 23, 2021 03:15 PM UTC:

Most of the rules have been fixed !


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Sat, Mar 27, 2021 09:00 AM UTC in reply to Greg Strong from Fri Mar 26 03:39 PM:

ah 'can promote' -> 'may promote'

Only Pawns must be promoted on the 10th rank. All pieces except pawns can choose whether to promote on the 9th or 10th rank.


Greg Strong wrote on Fri, Mar 26, 2021 03:39 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 03:15 PM:

CAN promote on 9th or MUST promote on 9th?


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Fri, Mar 26, 2021 03:15 PM UTC:

Rule changed !

May promote only on the 10th rank

->

May promote not only the 10th rank but also the 9th rank


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Thu, Mar 25, 2021 11:01 AM UTC:

Greg, Fergus // Really thank you !


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Mar 24, 2021 10:18 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 06:57 PM:

I can't upload images to the page. What is the reason?

For some reason, the group write bit for the directory was off. This matters, because I recently changed the owner of everything to chessvariants, but php runs as apache. I checked the script, and it does "chmod 0775" on a new directory. So, I don't know how it happened. I tested one of my own directories with the same problem. After turning the group write bit on, I was able to upload files to it. I also tested a file with the same name as the one you tried to upload. It uploaded as 001.png, because the Korean characters were ignored. So, you should avoid using Korean letters in file names.


Greg Strong wrote on Wed, Mar 24, 2021 08:18 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 06:57 PM:

Based on the error, it looks like the name of the file begins with a space, which is probably not allowed. I would try renaming the file.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Wed, Mar 24, 2021 06:57 PM UTC:

Upload of /home/chessvariants/public_html/membergraphics/MSpandemonium/ 현재001.png was allowed but failed! The cause of failure is unknown.

I can't upload images to the page. What is the reason?


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Wed, Mar 17, 2021 11:53 AM UTC:

I have corrected the wrong description!

[Rook, Bishop, and Knight have additional King's move when promoted. Marshal and Cardinal become the same as Queen when promoted. King and Queen are pieces that are not promoted.]

->

[Rook, Bishop, and Knight have additional King's move when promoted. Pawn, Marshal and Cardinal become the same as Queen when promoted. King and Queen are pieces that are not promoted.]


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Thu, Feb 18, 2021 03:18 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 12:23 AM:

You can play Pandemonium on vchess!

https://vchess.club/#/variants/Pandemonium


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Thu, Feb 18, 2021 12:23 AM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from Mon Feb 8 12:02 PM:

[Changed points]

  1. Castling is only possible once. And if Rook moves or is captured, casting is impossible in that direction, and if King moves, casting is impossible at all.

  2. Now the two Kings can face each other. That is, it is okay if King and King are in the same file or rank, and there is no piece between them.

  3. If a player can no longer move or drop a piece, the game is a draw.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Thu, Feb 4, 2021 07:52 PM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from 06:02 PM:

Jean //

I'll fix the grammatical errors later!

In Pandemonium, dropped or moved pawns can also move more than 2 spaces. If the pawn can move more than 2 spaces even though it has been moved, then also King and Rook think it should be possible to castling even if it has moved as well.

The reason why Marshal's promotion name and Cardinal's promotion name were not set to Queen is that it can be confused with the original Queen.


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Thu, Feb 4, 2021 06:02 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 10:02 AM:

Daphne, I don't know if you prefer communicate (in PM?) with another language, I speak Fr, Sp, It. What I mean is that your rules of castling seems to apply equally for King and Jade. If yes, then you could simply write King/Jade because as it is written, it is confusing.

My English is not very good either, but "to be castle" is not correct.

The rules of castling in chess are complex but they are less complex if one understands the history. Castling should be the 1st move of the King and the concerned Rook. It is a kind of dogma. Now, we are talking "variants" so you can decide what you want. Personally I like the idea that the player forfeits his right of castle if he moves the piece. But it's up to you.

Why do you need to have another names like Apricot and Whole (why these strange names?) for something which is exactly the Queen. Why not simply saying "Queen"?


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Thu, Feb 4, 2021 10:02 AM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from 06:49 AM:

Jean-Louis // Thank you!

  1. The two King pieces are separated into Jade and King. I followed it. Therefore, it was necessary to explain Castling differently.

  2. And, in Chess without Drop, BN (Cardinal) and RN (Marshal) are less valuable than Queen. So it reflected being promoted to Queen. Anyway, promotion is optional. There is no reason to promote BN or RN to Queen unless you want to. And in Shogi, all minor pieces are promoted to Gold. With this in mind, BN and RN were also promoted to Queen(a piece of the same status as Gold in Shogi).

  3. Now castling is also possible with a moved or dropped Rook. Likewise, you can castling with a moved King. Of course, the King and Rook needed for Castling should be at the starting point. A dropped or moved pawn can move more than 2 squares, but I think it's strange that casting is impossible if the Rook and KIng are dropped or moved. So in Pandemonium, castling was modified to be possible multiple times. What do you all think about this?

(Because my English is not good, I rely heavily on Translate google. Therefore, there will be a lot of awkward parts in the sentence and there will be parts that you don't understand. If you have such a part, please tell me!)


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Thu, Feb 4, 2021 09:55 AM UTC in reply to Kevin Pacey from 03:58 AM:

Kevin // Thank you so much for the comments!! 8ã……8


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Thu, Feb 4, 2021 06:49 AM UTC:

Interesting cross over between decimal chess, shogi, janggi, xiangqi.

On the critical side, I find the rules of castling confusing: sometimes referring to the Jade, sometimes to the King. I guess they are applicable to both but a strict reading permits to doubt. So why two different names, apart from the exotic touch?

Also what the point to define an Apricot and a Whole if they are exactly identical to a Queen, or I missed something? I like the idea of promoting non-Pawn pieces, but not sure that promoting a BN and a RN to a Queen is so nice as these pieces will loose their knight-part.

Anyway, interesting game


Kevin Pacey wrote on Thu, Feb 4, 2021 03:58 AM UTC:

Daphne//

I'm not sure the tactical or positional qualities of the game have been changed much, though one of the changes you've made (rule for switching minor pieces around) certainly adds to the richness of the options for play coming right out of the first opening moves. The potential for lots of powerful pieces eventually getting into action is still there.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Wed, Feb 3, 2021 11:05 PM UTC in reply to Kevin Pacey from Wed Jan 13 03:40 AM:

Kevin //

A lot has been added and changed. What do you think of this?

  1. Kings cannot face each other.

  2. Both players can change the position of their Bishop and Knight.

Now castling is also possible with a moved or dropped Rook. Likewise, you can castling with a moved King. Of course, the King and Rook needed for Castling should be at the starting point.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Wed, Feb 3, 2021 12:50 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from Tue Feb 2 09:21 PM:

Really thank you! 8ã……8,,!


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Feb 2, 2021 09:21 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 07:06 PM:

Do you know how to implement the images in the links below into this page?

Download them from where you currently have them, upload them here, and use the IMG tag to place them into your HTML code.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Tue, Feb 2, 2021 07:06 PM UTC:

Do you know how to implement the images in the links below into this page?

8ã……8,,

https://cafe.naver.com/snowmoondaphne/8


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Wed, Jan 13, 2021 05:24 AM UTC in reply to Kevin Pacey from 03:40 AM:

Kevin // Hi! ٩(ˊᗜˋ*)و

Ah I understand! Really thanks for telling me!


Kevin Pacey wrote on Wed, Jan 13, 2021 03:40 AM UTC:

Hi Daphne

I meant that in the setup the armies are 6 ranks apart from each other in that all ranks in between have nothing but empty squares on them. That is, White's pawns are on rank 2 and Black's pawns are on rank 9, with the six ranks between (ranks 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8) having no pieces or pawns occupying any squares on them in the setup.

In (10x8) Capablanca Chess, in contrast, the armies are seperated by just 4 ranks in that game's setup (by which I mean, again, completely empty ranks of squares).


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Tue, Jan 12, 2021 11:44 PM UTC in reply to Kevin Pacey from Sat Dec 12 2020 04:53 AM:

Kevin // Thank you so much for commenting! But can you tell me what 'Having the armies seperated by 6 ranks' means? Does that mean the maximum rank that can be dropped is the 6th rank?


Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 12, 2020 04:53 AM UTC:

This game has almost the initial setup of 10x8 Embassy Chess (which itself borrows from the setup of 10x10 Grand Chess, both of which are, yes, arguably related to Capablanca Chess [whether its 10x10 or 10x8 versions], in different ways).

The game (8x8) Crazyhouse uses drops, but the present game (Pandemonium) adds Shogi-like elements when it comes to the addition of promotion rules for pieces (let alone the pawns). So, Pandemonium might be seen as a fusion of ideas from several games.

Long ago I toyed with the idea of having a Grand Chess-like game with the addition of dropping captured pieces at times (I didn't think of adding Shogi-like promotion rules as well). Eventually I submitted the game, but it was decided to be a Crazyhouse-like 'mutator' of the Grand Chess-like game I had submitted before. I also by then feared having 3 Q-strength pieces per side at the start (in a game with drops) might make for too much power, in that games might take little time in terms of number of moves, or else players would need to be very cautious. So, I recently deleted that mutator game of mine, along with several other games that were deemed to be similarly Crazyhouse/Bughouse-like mutators.

Pandemonium adds even more power, potentially, since pieces could promote (albeit only on the last rank). Having the armies seperated by 6 ranks could help slow the pace, though, since substantial contact between the two armies could well be delayed, if that's deemed desirable. Otherwise play-testing would be needed to see if my fears of there being too much power on board are justified.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Wed, Dec 9, 2020 07:53 AM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from Mon Dec 7 04:02 PM:

HG //

Yes, I fixed it!


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Wed, Dec 9, 2020 07:52 AM UTC in reply to Ben Reiniger from Mon Dec 7 03:27 PM:

Ben //

thank you!

umm,, I am revising the description,,


H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, Dec 7, 2020 04:02 PM UTC in reply to Ben Reiniger from 03:27 PM:

I propose to express this rule as follows:

"If, on a 4-fold repetition, one player has been checking on every move since the previous occurrence of that position, that player loses."


Ben Reiniger wrote on Mon, Dec 7, 2020 03:27 PM UTC:

I also like the new piece images.

I don't understand the part of fourfold repetition concerning checks. Could you clarify that please? (I guess the main point is that "forcing" the fourfold repetition by chasing loses instead of draws, but how is that formalized? If the position that is repeated four times includes one side being in check, then that side wins? What does the last clause [about checking consecutively] mean?)


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Mon, Dec 7, 2020 11:10 AM UTC in reply to Zhedric Meneses from 07:46 AM:

thank you! ^~^


Zhedric Meneses wrote on Mon, Dec 7, 2020 07:46 AM UTC:

nice choices for the icons of the promoted pieces


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Mon, Dec 7, 2020 06:22 AM UTC:

I changed the icons


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Thu, Dec 3, 2020 06:28 AM UTC in reply to Zhedric Meneses from 04:38 AM:

To make the Gilding, Apricot, and Whole similar in shape (since the move is Queen), I referred to -rider icon and withdrawer icon. Because the two have similar lines. Of course, if there is a better icon, I will change it.


Zhedric Meneses wrote on Thu, Dec 3, 2020 04:38 AM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 02:11 AM:

just asking but why not the other ultima pieces in alfaerie


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Thu, Dec 3, 2020 02:11 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from Tue Dec 1 01:46 AM:

The reason I posted the Korean link is because I want to reveal what it actually looks like. The description is the same as here.

And there is no piece shape that matches the promoted move. So I temporarily made the promoted shapes of pawn, knight, cardinal, marshal like that. It's hard to find other shapes to replace...


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Dec 1, 2020 01:46 AM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from Sun Nov 29 06:54 PM:

I haven't looked over the whole page, since I already noticed some things that need fixing. In your introduction, there is a link to a page written in Korean. Since most visitors to this site cannot read Korean, it would be helpful to include a brief description of the content that link goes to. It also might be more appropriate to include it in the Notes section.

You are using various compound pieces, but your piece images do not match the compounds described, which makes things confusing. The image you're using for a Scepter, which moves as a Knight or King, is a Nightrider image. The Knight+Guard image in the Alfaerie Expansion Set One would be more appropriate. Your image for the Apricot, which moves as a Rook or a Bishop, shows the compound of a Nightrider and a Rook. Your image for the Whole, which moves the same way, shows the compound of a Nightrider and a Bishop. Both images are confusing for pieces that move like Queens. I suppose you want to make these pieces look different from the Queen because they demote to different pieces when captured. There may be more suitable images than these for this purpose. But it's also possible that someone will have to create them. Perhaps images of a Queen/Rook compound and a Queen/Bishop compound would work best.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Sun, Nov 29, 2020 06:54 PM UTC:

Can this be published please?


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Wed, Nov 18, 2020 10:41 AM UTC in reply to Zhedric Meneses from 03:23 AM:

Thank you!


Zhedric Meneses wrote on Wed, Nov 18, 2020 03:23 AM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 03:02 AM:

ok, I'm just making a suggesting but you do you


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Wed, Nov 18, 2020 03:02 AM UTC in reply to Zhedric Meneses from Tue Nov 17 03:58 AM:

Thanks for the comments. But, as you said, I made it closer to Shogi, so I'm going to keep the piece as it is. (Knight referred to 八方桂.)


Zhedric Meneses wrote on Tue, Nov 17, 2020 03:58 AM UTC:

The many pieces promoting into a queen reminds me of shogi. just a suggestion but maybe it'd be better if Marshall and Cardinal promote into a Nightrider+Rook and Nightrider+Bishop pieces respectively and the knight can either promote into Scepter or Nightrider


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