Comments/Ratings for a Single Item

⇩Latest ⇩Later ⇩Reverse Order⇧ ~~Earlier~~

Shogi. Missing description (9x9, Cells: 81) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Mar 12, 2003 12:20 AM UTC:

As the script stands right now, piece values are falling into approximately
what Michael Howe suggests. Two Gold Generals have a value between the
value of a Bishop and the value of a Rook. A Lance plus a Knight is worth
around the same as a General, though Zillions values a Lance more than
twice as much as a Knight.

In a previous script, Zillions valued the Gold General almost as much as
the Bishop, and the new script was able to beat it. But since the old
script inflated its value with redundant code, it could have lost from
having to use more processor time, rather than from valuing the Gold
General too much. But in observing the game while mediating between two
runs of Zillions, its overvaluing of the Gold General did seem to be a
liability.

Michael Nelson wrote on Tue, Mar 11, 2003 09:44 AM UTC:

Piece values will be more elastic in Shogi than in FIDE Chess--there will be more positions in which a Bishop is stronger than a Rook, for example. But Shogi piece values do exist. Try this thought experiment: Give one player both Bishops and both Rooks and the other player four Lances. The player starting with the Rooks and Bishops will win every game (assuming that there is not a gross disparity in skill). This must mean that Rooks and Bishops are more valuable than Lances--and if there is a difference, it is possible in principle to quantify it. 'The Value of Shogi Pieces' is simply a tougher problem than (the ridiculously difficult problem) 'The Value of Chess Pieces' and the answers will have a higher level of uncertainty.

Jianying Ji wrote on Tue, Mar 11, 2003 08:30 AM UTC:

Since pieces never disapear from the game, in shogi the values are all 
positional. That is pieces in hand can be considered as just another 
position for the pieces to be. and that value is assessed for a position
taking into account of the positions of all pieces including those in 
hand and whose turn it is. So in a sense it is more like go, only 
holistic evaluation can be done.

Ben Good wrote on Tue, Mar 11, 2003 03:25 AM UTC:

my understanding of shogi is that because of drops, piece values such as given in chess are not meaningful or useful. in the fairbairn book he spends more than 2 pages (83-85) discussing relative piece worth and things you should take into consideration, and how you should think about it, and what other people say about the subject. but nowhere does he give values, and he says 'japanese professionals refuse to answer that question.' later he adds that he is trying 'to correct the distortion introduced by many western writers who insist on ascribing values to the pieces.' in other words, from fairbairn's perspective - and i've seen nothing in shogi to suggest that he is wrong and plenty to suggest that he's right - tweaking the values of the pieces in zillions will not make it play any better.

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Mar 11, 2003 03:08 AM UTC:

Does anyone know what the relative piece values are for the pieces in Shogi? I am currently working on updating my Shogi ZRF, and I would like to tweak the piece values to approximate what they should be.

Javier wrote on Fri, Dec 6, 2002 09:43 PM UTC:Good ★★★★

I have discovered that most resources for shogi are in Japanese, and
resources (including web sites and software) in English about shogi are
hard to find.  Here is a collection of essential links about shogi in
English.  It covers virtually every good shogi site and program that
exists in English, and thus is a comprehensive and essential list of
links.

------------------
RULES/INTRODUCTION

http://homepages.ed.ac.uk/rjhare/shogi/intro.htm
http://www.chessvariants.com/shogi.html
http://www.ricoh.co.jp/SHOGI/rules/erules.html
http://www.hollandnumerics.demon.co.uk/SHOGIRULE.HTM
http://boardgames.about.com/library/weekly/aa090399.htm

------------------
STRATEGY

http://www.shogi.net/nexus/ukekata/index.html 
(How to Defend in Shogi)

http://www.shogi.net/kakugen/ 
(Shogi Proverbs)

http://www.shogi.net/noda/quest-all.html 
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-King/7596/QuestKakuKawari01.htm
(Book on Shogi Openings Part 1 & 2)

------------------
JAVA PLAYING ONLINE

http://www.shogidojo.com/eng/engindex.htm 
(Shogi Club 24)

http://www.javashogi.jp/~board-e/ 
(JavaShogi - need firewall off)

http://games.yahoo.com/games/login2?page=shg 
(Yahoo) 
Very good and in English, but mostly deserted

http://games.yahoo.co.jp/ 
(Japanese Yahoo server)

Shogi PlayByEmail server
http://www.gamerz.net/pbmserv/

------------------
PLAYING SOFTWARE

http://www.netspace.net.au/~trout/index.html 
(ShogiVariants)

http://www.nexus.carleton.ca/~ttidman/WinShogi/index.html 
(WinShogi)

http://www.zillionsofgames.com/games/index.html 
(Zillions variants - search for 'Shogi' on page) 

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/pmturune/Shocky_e.html 
(Shocky)

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~alpearce/sho.html 
(ShogiGold)

http://www.cs.caltech.edu/~mvanier/hacking/gnushogi/gnushogi.html 
ftp://ftp.uni-passau.de/pub/local/shogi
(GNUshogi for Unix)

http://www.m-net.ne.jp/~sekita/english.html 
(Sekita Shogi)

http://www.fu.is.saga-u.ac.jp/~grimberg/SHOGI/SPEAR/spearmain.html 
(Spear Ver.5)

------------------
DATABASE SOFTWARE

http://www.ibridge.be/shogi/ 
(GNSB - GNU Shogi Database Project)

http://foreninger.uio.no/shogi/shogiopening/ 
(ShogiOpening)

------------------
LINKS

http://www.shogi.net/shogi.html
http://www.ff.iij4u.or.jp/~jun1/shogi_link_e.html

------------------
DISCUSSIONS

http://www.shogi.net/shogi-l.html (SHOGI-L mailing list)
fa.shogi (newsgroup which mirrors SHOGI-L)

------------------
GAMES

http://www.shogi.net/ladder/mygames.html 
(amateur)

http://www.fu.is.saga-u.ac.jp/~grimberg/SHOGI/kifu.html 
(professional, annotated)

------------------
TSUME SHOGI (mating problems)

http://www.ricoh.co.jp/SHOGI/emate/mate.html
http://www.shogi.net/nexus/ladder/help.html

------------------
FEDERATIONS

http://www.platz.jp/~tanase/csf/csf.html
Canadian Shogi Federation

Ben Good wrote on Tue, Sep 10, 2002 07:50 PM UTC:

On the side bar there is a link called 'links to shogi variants.' this link no longer works, i get a message saying this index has moved and it's redirecting me automatically, but then it just takes me to the main index.

AWJ wrote on Fri, Sep 6, 2002 07:37 PM UTC:Good ★★★★

Good overview of the game, but the images of the pieces need to be much larger--the Japanese characters on each piece are no more than undistinguishable four-pixel squiggles.

Sam wrote on Wed, Aug 14, 2002 01:56 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

Nice page it really helped me learn to play the game.

Lachlan wrote on Mon, Jul 22, 2002 04:39 AM UTC:Good ★★★★

I noticed that the notation you provide for the pieces differs from that used in Japanese game scores; for example the opening position of the White bishop is given as 'b2' whereas in Japanese notation this position would be given as 2b. I think it's important to use the Japanese notation so that people can use game scores from competitions in Japan.

Anonymous wrote on Tue, Jul 16, 2002 08:20 AM UTC:Good ★★★★

I think some of your graphics for the promoted pieces are mixed up (I.E. Promoted rook as the same Graphic as the Promoted Silver General, which, is not right)

Sam wrote on Thu, Jun 27, 2002 11:45 PM UTC:

Your site makes it very hard for people who can not read the Japaness symbols. You could make it easyer to read, like what you did for chinese chess. Also how you explain it, doesn't make much senes. In other words, a 7 year old boy should be able to read this and understand it perfectly. Thank you for your time.

Liz wrote on Sat, Jun 22, 2002 05:45 AM UTC:Good ★★★★

A great site! I have never played Shogi but was researching it as part of a Japanese assignment ( I am an Australian year nine student). Thankyou for providing me with a better knowledge of the game and its history.

Steven wrote on Sat, May 18, 2002 02:21 PM UTC:Good ★★★★

Check out www.debian.org. They have xshogi running for the Debian GNU/Linux distribution. You <i>should</i> be able to compile it for any Linux distribution if you have all of its dependencies. Here's the link to the Debian page for xshogi http://packages.debian.org/stable/games/xshogi.html.

Joe Marchak wrote on Sat, May 18, 2002 01:51 PM UTC:Good ★★★★

I've been playing shogi for years here in Japan, both with people and on 
the computer.   There was a program 'xshogi' which was maintained until
1994/1995 and is still available through GNU.   Is anyone looking at 
picking up this package and updating it for Linux?

15 comments displayed

⇩Latest ⇩Later ⇩Reverse Order⇧ ~~Earlier~~

Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.