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Shogi. Missing description (9x9, Cells: 81) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Nate the Great wrote on 2005-10-28 UTC
Correction on the List of pieces: it's not JEWELED general but rather JADE general you're taling about. The same ideogram used is the same in Chinese. That's how I know.

Ed wrote on 2005-08-07 UTC
Recently on the Shogi-L
(http://www.shogi.net/shogi-l/Archive/2005/Naug05-00.txt) there has been
discussion of a freeware Shogi program called Bonanza.  It is quite
strong
on even play.  An extension has been created that allows playing handicap
games.  Its handicap play is perhaps not as strong as its even game play
(I suspect this is because it does not have book moves for the handicaps,
but that is a guess), but it will prove challenging for most.  It
certainly is for me.  

The link for Bonanza is:
http://www.geocities.jp/bonanza_shogi/bonanza1.1_csawin.zip

and for the extension:
http://homepage3.nifty.com/floatinghome/csa_xt122.zip

The listing from Shogi-L describes how to use the extension.

Non-Japanese shogi players should truly appreciate this gift from Messers
Masumoto and RaumNaum; I sure do!

Adam Marquis wrote on 2005-06-07 UTCGood ★★★★
I've implemented my own web interface for playing Shogi, if anybody wants to try it out:<br><br> <a href='http://www.polymathgames.com'>www.polymathgames.com</a>

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2005-03-16 UTC
The bug was that I had transposed the x and y distances for checking for attacks from pieces that can move one space vertically forward. This allowed the King to move to a space attacked by a Pawn. This move was illegal, but the bug allowed it, and then the King got captured, which should have never happened. Anyway, the bug is now fixed, but because of the illegal move in your game, it is now broken.

Paul Grosemans wrote on 2005-03-16 UTC
Dear Fergus Duniho,

About my game with Joao Bigodes. His King is captured, though the game
continue! Isn't a bug somewhere???

Best regards,
Paul Grosemans aka Centaure.

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2005-03-09 UTC
I assume 'deadlocked piece' describes a piece dropped on a position it is impossible to ever move from, such as a Pawn or Lance on the last rank. If it described the situtation I described earlier, it would make stalemate itself illegal. Based on the text you copied here, it looks like only checkmate, and not stalemate, with a Pawn drop is illegal. Thanks.

David Paulowich wrote on 2005-03-09 UTC
Lionel Vidal posted the following to the Newsgroup fa.shogi, dated 2000/04/13 <p>'I am not sure if this will clarify or confuse the issue, but here is a summary from an old post of George Fernandez:' <p>************************ <p>The last version of 'The rules of shogi' I have was written in 1993 by Mr. K. Horiguchi 6 Dan[supplement to the January 1993 issue of Shogi Sekai]. The 96 page booklet, written in japanese, is the official rule book accepted by the Japanese Shogi Association. <p>The following definitions were given which apply here: <p>Checkmate: <p> A checkmate is a position in which a King is in check and there are no legal moves to leave the check. <p>Illegal moves: <p> (1)A move is illegal to make a double pawn. <p> (2)A move is illegal to make a deadlocked piece. <p> (3)A move is illegal for a player if his King's square is attacked by an opponent piece after the move.[to remain in check, to move into check or to expose the king to check] <p> (4)A move is illegal to make a repetition check move [Mr. Horiguchi wrote in an addendum the following clarification: '... In the event of perpetual check, if one player player does it FOUR TIMES(three times is permitted), he will lose his game'. <p> (5)A move is illegal to make a dropping check move by a pawn which leads to a position in checkmate at once(dropped-pawn mate). <p>Legal moves: <p> A legal move for a player is a move to leave the check by moving pieces on the board or by dropping if his king is in check. Otherwise, a legal move by a piece on the board which can go[move] or a drop move, which is not illegal. <p>Remark (condition of ending game): <p> 1. The game is finished if the position is in a checkmate; The player to move loses the game. <p> 2. The game is finished if one player makes an illegal move; This player loses the game. <p> 3. The game is finished if one player has no legal moves; This player loses the game[contrary to chess rules, where a stalemate is considered a draw]. <p> 4. The game is finished if one player resigns; This player loses the game. <p>In an effort to put this issue behind us, and move on, I'm sharing with you a bizzare diagram from the 1993 rules book[page 93, digram #92]. <p>***ENDQUOTE*** I [David Paulowich] am unable to format the diagram for this text message. It shows a stalemate loss for the lone White King. But Black to move also has no legal moves, even though he has a huge army and a Pawn in hand (dropping that Pawn would be mate).

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2005-03-08 UTC
David P: Based on your new information, I've changed the Shogi presets to recognize stalemate as a win. But this information also raises a new question. It is illegal in Shogi to checkmate a King with a Pawn drop. Since stalemate is a win, would it also be illegal to stalemate a King with a Pawn drop, such as by dropping a Pawn to cover the only space a lone King had available to move to? In other words, does the rule forbid just checkmate with a Pawn drop or any winning move with a Pawn drop. This is the sort of detail that could have gotten lost in the translation, especially if someone wasn't considering any kind of win except checkmate. Of course, it is probably an insignificant detail, since anyone who could win in this way is very likely to win anyway.

David Paulowich wrote on 2005-03-08 UTC
Fergus: both the no-contest and forfeit rules seem to apply to the same position happening four (4) times. Turning to another topic, the internet is flooded with statements like 'There is no stalemate in shogi.' Some people support this claim by stating that you actually win a game of Shogi by King capture, and that it is actually legal to move your King into check. This may be true for some of the older variants, such as Chu Shogi. But my BLOCKADE STALEMATE IN 20 MOVES example (see Shatranj Comments - today) demonstrates that even King capture variants may reach a position with no legal moves for one player. As for the modern shogi rules, here is a post to the Newsgroup fa.shogi, dated 2000/04/12. <p>'Stalemating your opponent is extremely rare but it *can* happen in shogi (especially when larger handicaps are used) and it has the same result as a conventional mate. In fact, there is a very cute stalemate tsume where the player who delivers the stalemate has only his bare King left at the end (!) and the opponent has all of the rest of the pieces on the board [arranged in such a way that none can move] but his only move is to move his King into check, that is, next to the opponent's lone King, thus he is stalemated and loses the game!' - George I. Fernandez

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2005-01-15 UTC
Thanks for the reference. It seems that the rule reduces to 3-times repetition is a draw, and the part about not being able to check with 4-times repetition is superfluous. In Chess, 3-times repetition merely gives players the right to unilaterally call a draw, but does not entail a draw. I wonder if it is the same way in Shogi. The part about forfeiting the game if a player continues to repeat the same check seems to suggest that drawing is optional rather than inevitable.

David Paulowich wrote on 2005-01-15 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
Repetition <p>If the same game position occurs more than three times in a single game, the game is declared a no-contest. The same position means, same players turn, same disposition of pieces on the board and in hand. If a repeated position occurs as a result of repeated checks, the player giving check must not do so a fourth time otherwise that player forfeits the game. <p>This is a quote from: Shogi - Japanese Chess by Roger Hare. See the sidebar above.

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2005-01-14 UTC
One of the rules on this page says: 'Perpetual check is forbidden. The player initiating the check must break it off.' What constitutes perpetual check? How should this rule be enforced? Is there any online description of the rules that goes into this in more detail? I'm interested for the sake of including enforcement of the rule in my Game Courier presets for Shogi.

Reinhard Scharnagl wrote on 2005-01-13 UTC
If you want to see a more European look of Shogi, see:
http://f51.parsimony.net/forum203932/messages/21.htm

Nasmichael Farris wrote on 2005-01-13 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
Thanks for the information!  Manabu Terao, thank you also for the link.

I have never heard of the Invisible Ink Composition, the moves of which
for the shape of a letter or ideogram.  Wonderful idea.

That is one reason why investigation of chess variants is good for the
mind.  New ideas, different cultures, change of perspective.  Thank you.

Pierre Jason wrote on 2004-12-29 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
About the program Todai Shogi 

   Hello,

I have Todai Shogi program but all the menus are in Japanese.
Anybody would have the intructions note (comment help) translated into
English?
Either can you advise me a means to understand the menus of this 
software?

            Pierre Jason

Manabu Terao wrote on 2004-12-29 UTC
Jared, please refer to 1.4) Pieces of Hans Geuns' Basic Shogi Vocabulary.
http://www.shogi.net/shogivocab/
I would like to suggest this page should have a link to the above.

Jared McComb wrote on 2004-12-26 UTC
Roberto: I actually got it from my mother, who ordered a board and a set of
wooden pieces from www.yutopian.com.  It's not too bad of a set, although
it's obviously not professional quality.

To stay on topic: Do we have a resource that lists the original Japanese
names (and English translations) of the pieces?  This page doesn't.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on 2004-12-26 UTC
Jared, How have you managed to get a Shogi set from Santa?. He was not so good with me, No Shogi set, neither other variant set. A few weeks ago I have had to pay for the construction of a Maxima set (nice, but relatively modest, contructed metalic board and fragile glass pieces). A Mage was broken accidentally in my house. I feel bad with this destroyed piece, I glued it, but the result was horrible. The glass artisan is on vacations, so I must wait one month or more for the reposition.

Jared McComb wrote on 2004-12-25 UTC
Would it be possible to create a printer-friendly version of this page, without all the links and stuff? I just got a set for Christmas (yay!) and I'd like to keep a copy of the rules with me.

BoBo wrote on 2004-10-28 UTCGood ★★★★
This is an interesting page! Nice background! G2G bye bye!! Luv ya mwa!

Charles Gilman wrote on 2004-07-04 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
Thanks for adding the 'see also' link to Tunnelshogi.

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2004-06-15 UTC
Many people who don't know Japanese have been using Game Courier to play
Shogi online against other people. Besides some Japanese sets, Game
Courier allows that option of a symbolic set that doesn't require any
ability to recognize Japanese characters. Here is the link for Game
Courier's Shogi preset:

http://play.chessvariants.com/pbm/presets/shogi.html

But be sure to visit the main Game Courier page before you get started:

http://play.chessvariants.com/pbm/

For programs that will play Shogi, go here:

http://www.shogi.net/shogi-soft-eqp.html

William, Norway wrote on 2004-06-15 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
Shogi is an entertaining game, indeed, but I lack a link to play this on
the  computer. It's hard finding people to play against on the other
side
of the planet, especially ones who speak or read japanese. And I'm too
lazy to do that. Mendoukusai na, if you know what I mean.
Do you have a link to an online version of shogi?

Shogi Student wrote on 2004-06-01 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
Does anyone know, are there Zillions of Games saved-games files (*.zsg) of
interesting, classic, instructive Shogi games available here or elsewhere
on the net?  Would this be a worthwhile project?  It's hard (for me, at
least) to see a list of Shogi game moves and follow it--especially since
I
have to work so hard to recognize the Japanese characters. This is my own
problem, of course, but I wonder if others feel the same way, and if
Zillions saved games provides a solution?  Thanks.

Charles Gilman wrote on 2004-01-10 UTC
Further to my (much) earlier comments, I have just noticed a curious coincidence while considering applying the 'Gold' and 'Silver' sets of directions to a wider range of pieces. The number of directions (in 2d at any rate) is the same as in the rhyme about magpies: '5 for Silver, 6 for Gold'!

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