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Shogi. Missing description (9x9, Cells: 81) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Anonymous wrote on Sun, Nov 4, 2007 10:37 AM UTC:
Perpetual check is forbidden, but how about other repeated situations?

Roberto Lavieri wrote on Sat, Jul 8, 2006 04:13 PM UTC:
Yes, Mr. Habu is the best Shogi player right now, and he plays Chess 'as hobby'; he has said he has not time to study Chess theory more than the basic things, and he practices Chess very eventually. But he has obtained in the last Tournament his second 'Chess International Master norm'. One more and he is going to be IM, an IM that only plays the game once in a while, without dedication to it. Remarkable, but, undoubtedly, his Shogi experience helps a lot.

Jeremy Good wrote on Fri, Jul 7, 2006 08:51 PM UTC:

Shogi Champ plays in chess tournament.

Remarkable is the 38th place of FM Yoshiharu Habu (6/9). Why? Because Habu is not really a chess player, but the world's leading Shogi champion, who has taken a casual interest in chess.

Read the rest ...here


Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Sun, Jun 18, 2006 06:01 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
ahhhh shogi, love the drops

Dane Rogers wrote on Sat, Feb 18, 2006 02:25 PM UTC:
Thanks for the replies David and Elijah. If you want a game of taikyoku
shogi, you can find it in here.
http://taikyokushogi.hp.infoseek.co.jp/taikyoku.swf and thats the larger
version.
http://taikyokushogi.hp.infoseek.co.jp/taikyoku.html

Elijah Johnson wrote on Sun, Feb 5, 2006 04:31 PM UTC:
I think the closest thing to that would be Taiykoku Shogi, with a 36x36 Board and 100+ types of pieces. There's probaly someone around here who's finished a game of the flash version.

Gary Gifford wrote on Sun, Feb 5, 2006 03:05 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
Shogi, is of course, an excellent game. But here is what is interesting: In
relation to another CV comment, seemingly unrelated (i.e., Fergus's
comment to research a certain player to see he (Fergus) had no
double-identity).. Well, I did research that player and found out he was
in Tokyo and had a Shogi link which was quite interesting.  He also
mentioned a site where you could play Shogi in real-time.  So, I went to
http://www.kurnik.org and in minutes won my first 10 minute on-line speed
Shogi game... quite fun.  I was then crushing my opponent in a second game
when a most terrible thing happened.  I went to move the Rook, but then
realized I could drop a pawn instead and win a Lance for the pawn.  When I
clicked to drop the pawn, my Rook moved to that square instead... so,
instead of winning a Lance, I lost a Rook... oh what sorrow due to a
mechanical issue.  Anyway, it is fun to play real-time Shogi... and thanks
to the rating system double-idntity issue, a real-time Shogi site was
found.

David Paulowich wrote on Sat, Feb 4, 2006 08:57 PM UTC:
http://www.chessvariants.org/d.photo/taishogi/taipic.html

has some pictures of a (25x25) board and pieces for Tai Shogi. Dane, I think that is about the largest game anyone here will ever play.


Dane Rogers wrote on Sat, Feb 4, 2006 04:53 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
How about creating a shogi variant using all the shogi pieces from every game and every piece on the Chess variant pages?! It will probably be about 40 by 40 to 45 by 45 spaces big! Please use all versions of a piece. Please give me credit for the idea . By Dane Rogers. Age 11 and 3/4

Charles Gilman wrote on Sat, Jan 28, 2006 07:52 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
So 'Jade General' would require prefixing with a third character to specify that it was that kind of jewel, right? Thanks for that clarification, I'll mention it next time I update Generalised Generals.

Marek wrote on Mon, Nov 28, 2005 08:43 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
Shogi can now also be played online at Kurnik Online Games (http://www.kurnik.org/) with both traditional and Westernized pieces.

Larry Smith wrote on Sat, Nov 19, 2005 07:29 AM UTC:
Another interpretation of the King with the `gyoku` kanji might be 
`handsome general`.  The one with the `oo` kanji could be `ruling 
general`. 

Of course, one way to avoid the problem of interpretation is to called the
pieces by their Japanese names.  So the King would be either `gyokushoo` or
`ooshoo`(these names depend upon the side of the field).  But we can still
end up arguing about the proper phonetic spelling.

I prefer that the terms Black and White should be `sente` and `gote`.

But the introduction of Shogi to western culture began a long while back,
and those individuals responsible for its early interpretation selected
terms which they believed would make its assimilation easier.  Right?
Wrong? Maybe just expedient.

(zzo38) A. Black wrote on Sat, Nov 19, 2005 04:57 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
The name chosen for only phonetic reason should be written in kana!

Petri wrote on Fri, Nov 18, 2005 11:18 AM UTC:Good ★★★★
Dear Nate, John. Jewelled general is in my opinion the most correct traslation of shogi king. The upper symbol 'kanji' in shogi king means jewel or ball. What kind of jewel it is is defined by adding other symbols before it. here is a link where you can look by yourself:

http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=7389

But what should shock you is that knight is not honorable horse but a 'cinnamon tree-horse' and lance is 'perfume-chariot'. names probably chosen by phonetic reasons rather than those of meaning


John Ayer wrote on Sun, Oct 30, 2005 02:26 AM UTC:
That the Japanese chess-king is a jade general rather than a jeweled
general is supported by the wikipedia at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shogi and this other website:
http://www.crockford.com/chess/shogi.html .  Murray seems to say that he
depended for his information on nineteenth-century German translations of
a few Japanese documents.  This is rather a shock; it has been 'jeweled
general' to us for so long!

Nate the Great wrote on Fri, Oct 28, 2005 09:16 PM UTC:
Correction on the List of pieces: it's not JEWELED general but rather JADE general you're taling about. The same ideogram used is the same in Chinese. That's how I know.

Ed wrote on Sun, Aug 7, 2005 12:09 AM UTC:
Recently on the Shogi-L
(http://www.shogi.net/shogi-l/Archive/2005/Naug05-00.txt) there has been
discussion of a freeware Shogi program called Bonanza.  It is quite
strong
on even play.  An extension has been created that allows playing handicap
games.  Its handicap play is perhaps not as strong as its even game play
(I suspect this is because it does not have book moves for the handicaps,
but that is a guess), but it will prove challenging for most.  It
certainly is for me.  

The link for Bonanza is:
http://www.geocities.jp/bonanza_shogi/bonanza1.1_csawin.zip

and for the extension:
http://homepage3.nifty.com/floatinghome/csa_xt122.zip

The listing from Shogi-L describes how to use the extension.

Non-Japanese shogi players should truly appreciate this gift from Messers
Masumoto and RaumNaum; I sure do!

Adam Marquis wrote on Tue, Jun 7, 2005 04:07 AM UTC:Good ★★★★
I've implemented my own web interface for playing Shogi, if anybody wants to try it out:<br><br> <a href='http://www.polymathgames.com'>www.polymathgames.com</a>

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Mar 16, 2005 04:46 PM UTC:
The bug was that I had transposed the x and y distances for checking for attacks from pieces that can move one space vertically forward. This allowed the King to move to a space attacked by a Pawn. This move was illegal, but the bug allowed it, and then the King got captured, which should have never happened. Anyway, the bug is now fixed, but because of the illegal move in your game, it is now broken.

Paul Grosemans wrote on Wed, Mar 16, 2005 02:45 PM UTC:
Dear Fergus Duniho,

About my game with Joao Bigodes. His King is captured, though the game
continue! Isn't a bug somewhere???

Best regards,
Paul Grosemans aka Centaure.

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Mar 9, 2005 01:33 AM UTC:
I assume 'deadlocked piece' describes a piece dropped on a position it is impossible to ever move from, such as a Pawn or Lance on the last rank. If it described the situtation I described earlier, it would make stalemate itself illegal. Based on the text you copied here, it looks like only checkmate, and not stalemate, with a Pawn drop is illegal. Thanks.

David Paulowich wrote on Wed, Mar 9, 2005 12:11 AM UTC:
Lionel Vidal posted the following to the Newsgroup fa.shogi, dated 2000/04/13

'I am not sure if this will clarify or confuse the issue, but here is a summary from an old post of George Fernandez:'

*** *** *** *** *** ***

The last version of 'The rules of shogi' I have was written in 1993 by Mr. K. Horiguchi 6 Dan[supplement to the January 1993 issue of Shogi Sekai]. The 96 page booklet, written in japanese, is the official rule book accepted by the Japanese Shogi Association.

The following definitions were given which apply here:

Checkmate:

A checkmate is a position in which a King is in check and there are no legal moves to leave the check.

Illegal moves:

(1)A move is illegal to make a double pawn.

(2)A move is illegal to make a deadlocked piece.

(3)A move is illegal for a player if his King's square is attacked by an opponent piece after the move.[to remain in check, to move into check or to expose the king to check]

(4)A move is illegal to make a repetition check move [Mr. Horiguchi wrote in an addendum the following clarification: '... In the event of perpetual check, if one player player does it FOUR TIMES(three times is permitted), he will lose his game'.

(5)A move is illegal to make a dropping check move by a pawn which leads to a position in checkmate at once(dropped-pawn mate).

Legal moves:

A legal move for a player is a move to leave the check by moving pieces on the board or by dropping if his king is in check. Otherwise, a legal move by a piece on the board which can go[move] or a drop move, which is not illegal.

Remark (condition of ending game):

1. The game is finished if the position is in a checkmate; The player to move loses the game.

2. The game is finished if one player makes an illegal move; This player loses the game.

3. The game is finished if one player has no legal moves; This player loses the game[contrary to chess rules, where a stalemate is considered a draw].

4. The game is finished if one player resigns; This player loses the game.

In an effort to put this issue behind us, and move on, I'm sharing with you a bizzare diagram from the 1993 rules book[page 93, digram #92].

***ENDQUOTE*** I [David Paulowich] am unable to format the diagram for this text message. It shows a stalemate loss for the lone White King. But Black to move also has no legal moves, even though he has a huge army and a Pawn in hand (dropping that Pawn would be mate).


🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Mar 8, 2005 03:04 PM UTC:
David P: Based on your new information, I've changed the Shogi presets to recognize stalemate as a win. But this information also raises a new question. It is illegal in Shogi to checkmate a King with a Pawn drop. Since stalemate is a win, would it also be illegal to stalemate a King with a Pawn drop, such as by dropping a Pawn to cover the only space a lone King had available to move to? In other words, does the rule forbid just checkmate with a Pawn drop or any winning move with a Pawn drop. This is the sort of detail that could have gotten lost in the translation, especially if someone wasn't considering any kind of win except checkmate. Of course, it is probably an insignificant detail, since anyone who could win in this way is very likely to win anyway.

David Paulowich wrote on Tue, Mar 8, 2005 04:46 AM UTC:
Fergus: both the no-contest and forfeit rules seem to apply to the same position happening four (4) times. Turning to another topic, the internet is flooded with statements like 'There is no stalemate in shogi.' Some people support this claim by stating that you actually win a game of Shogi by King capture, and that it is actually legal to move your King into check. This may be true for some of the older variants, such as Chu Shogi. But my BLOCKADE STALEMATE IN 20 MOVES example (see Shatranj Comments - today) demonstrates that even King capture variants may reach a position with no legal moves for one player. As for the modern shogi rules, here is a post to the Newsgroup fa.shogi, dated 2000/04/12. <p>'Stalemating your opponent is extremely rare but it *can* happen in shogi (especially when larger handicaps are used) and it has the same result as a conventional mate. In fact, there is a very cute stalemate tsume where the player who delivers the stalemate has only his bare King left at the end (!) and the opponent has all of the rest of the pieces on the board [arranged in such a way that none can move] but his only move is to move his King into check, that is, next to the opponent's lone King, thus he is stalemated and loses the game!' - George I. Fernandez

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Sat, Jan 15, 2005 11:04 PM UTC:
Thanks for the reference. It seems that the rule reduces to 3-times repetition is a draw, and the part about not being able to check with 4-times repetition is superfluous. In Chess, 3-times repetition merely gives players the right to unilaterally call a draw, but does not entail a draw. I wonder if it is the same way in Shogi. The part about forfeiting the game if a player continues to repeat the same check seems to suggest that drawing is optional rather than inevitable.

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