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Shogi. Missing description (9x9, Cells: 81) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
M Winther wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC
Ok, I downloaded version 4.4 instead, then it works.

M Winther wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC
I get 'Variant Xiangqi not supported by Fairy-Max 4.8P'

M Winther wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC
How nice. I am surprised at the scarcity of good Xiangqi programs, in view of the fact that it's the most popular game in the world. I downloaded Stoneman, but it could not take back moves, due to some bug. I tested a cheaper version, but it played the same theoretical moves all the time. It seems the only good alternative is XieXie, but it has no analysis window. I tested my own Zillions implementation against freeware QianHong, but Zillions won. I also tested the freeware HiddenLynx, but Zillions won easily. I'll have a look at WinBoard. 

H. G. Muller wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC

> Can you do the same with your Xiangqi program? <\p>

Of course. WinBoard also supports Xiangqi. You can use the menus to switch from one varant to the other, be it orthoChess, Xiangqi, Shogi, Makruk, Capablanca, Knightmate. They all draw on a built-in set of bitmaps for 2x22 different piece types, but the user can define his own graphicrepresentation of the pieces, if he want. (E.g. to implement a high-quality oriental-style display.) All features are available from all variants.

For all variants there are engines available. E.g. the WinBoard binary download currently at contains a Shogi engine, 3 Xiangqi engines, a strong orthoChess engine, and Fairy-Max, wich plays some 10 other variants.

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC
I'm currently working on a Shogi Tsumi Editor for Game Courier. The problems will be in Game Courier's own FEN format. Working on this has given me ideas for a general purpose problem composition mode for all variants, but I'll get this working first, as a prototype for how it should work. While Game Courier can't analyze positions, the advantage of using Game Courier for problems will be the ease of making problems available on the web in a form that uses better graphics and is more interactive than the newspaper format so many Tsumi resources on the web are currently imitating. Since this is the web, not a newspaper, I want to do better.

M Winther wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC
Can you do the same with your Xiangqi program?

H. G. Muller wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC

I always use the WinBoard GUI for that purpose. It supports a completely westernized (Chess like) representation of the Shogi board. I can simply set up the position in Edit-Position mode, by clicking the squares and selecting a piece to go on it from the context menu that then appears. If the tsume problems would have been given in FEN format, you could of course have directly copy-pasted them into WinBoard. But alas, Shogi people seem to hate standardization, and hardly ever use FEN.

It would be very useful if the web pages you are building would contain the problem in FEN (or EPD) format, so that all standard Shogi software could process it.

And WinBoard supports both its own native WB protocol, as well as USI protocol, so there are many engines (from the weak GNU Shogi to the extremely strong Bonanza) that you could use to analyze positions.

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-11-19 UTC

I'm interested in doing Tsumi problems, but the graphics typically used for them are a stumbling block for me. Not only do they use Japanese characters, but don't include the Shogi piece outlines whose orientation would indicate which side each piece belongs to. Also, the Japanese characters are sometimes small and hard to discern. So that I can more easily do them without straining my eyes, and so that I can actually move the pieces instead of trying to do them in my head, I will begin here to transcribe Shogi Tsumi into Game Courier format and post links here, eventually planning to compile them into their own page. I will begin with the problems in Fat Bold Cyclop's collection of 300 Tsumi problems.

FBC Tsumi #1

[Edit:] I have fixed the Tsumi to give White all remaining pieces in hand. This was not visible in the diagram, but it is understood as part of a Tsumi that White has all remaining pieces in hand.

Daniil Frolov wrote on 2010-08-02 UTC
In response to Charles Gilman's comment.
What do you think about this game: in additional to normal game (FIDE chess or any other game) there is set with pieces of aproximately same value (the simpliest is set of different compounds of ferz, wazir, alfil, dababa: guard, alibaba, modern alfil, modern dababa, phoenix and kyryn, and, optonally, FIDE chess knight). Each player secretly choses 2 of these pieces (possible to chose 2 pieces of same kind) and can drop them during any turn, opponent don't know, wich pieces player choses until they are dropped.

Charles Gilman wrote on 2010-08-02 UTC
It's not surprising that the idea of Shogi with a deployment stage has appeared before. Interestring to note how Unachess has several options for a FIDE set and board but only one for a Shogi set and board. What Unashogi lacks is my proposal that Kings must be placed first, a rule that leads into a theoretically possible Shogi position (although in reality players would be unlikely to hold all there captives in Reserve for so long) so that thereafter Shogi rules can apply as standard.
	As I write a further thought has occurred to me. The Unachess principle could be used for deploying a set on a board for which it was not designed - a FIDE set on a Shogi board, a Carrera/Bird/Capablanca set on a Xiang Qi board, a Chaturanga set on a Diana/Haynie's Primary/Los Alamos board, et cetera. Of course deploying a Shogi set on a board with more or fewer than 9 ranks would require a definition of the promotion zone, likewise the River and Fortress for a Xiang Qi set.

Anonymous wrote on 2010-07-26 UTC
Game, Charles Gilman just suggested, looks like unachess.

Charles Gilman wrote on 2010-07-26 UTC
While thinking about a future variant of my own, it occurred to me that the name Karagi ('empty board game') would suit a game starting with an empty Shogi board and a complete Shogi army in each player's Reserve. Each player's first move would be to place their King, their second to either move the King or place a second piece, and later moves the standard Shogi-midgame choice of moving a piece on the board or adding another from Reserve. Adding this deployment stage would be a more modest variant to Shogi, which already has a Reserve and placement of piece from it, than it has been to the European game.

Charles Gilman wrote on 2010-07-04 UTC
My instinct is that Xiang Qi is a tamer game, as all but four pieces aside are weaker than the FIDE Bishop and Knight, and once the four are captured they're gone forever. The success of Yang Qi and Ajax Xiang Qi reinforces this view. Shogi counters individual piece weakness partly with 25% more pieces and partly with constant return from capture. This latter element is what makes Shogi particularly interesting to people who already play FIDE Chess and want to go on to something more complex. The fact that it is a development of war without actual death into war without even metaphorical death also gives a sense of logical progression. On the other hand, I wouldn't deny that promoted forms of back-rank pieces would benefit from being a bit stronger.

Anonymous wrote on 2010-06-30 UTC
Shogi is very clever, difficult and philosophical game. Looks like, it have much oriental wisdom in it!
Xiang-qi is more lively, simple, and, maybe, childish. Wstern players are better to start with Xiang-qi: it have simpllier rules and, plus, may be played with western chess equipment with some additions.

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-02-16 UTC

I have now recorded and uploaded my fourth video in my Shogi for Chess Players series. This one completes my explanation of the rules of Shogi, covering the capturing and dropping of pieces.

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-02-07 UTC

I have now recorded and posted the third video in my 'Shogi for Chess Players' series on Youtube. This one uses Zillions of Games to explain and demonstrate how pieces move and promote. For this video, I used a microphone to narrate a screencast I made using the BB Flashback Express 2 Recorder.

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-02-02 UTC

I have posted a couple videos on Shogi onto YouTube. The first one has a link to the second one at the end of the video. I have a couple more planned to complete the series. Here is the first one:

Anonymous wrote on 2010-01-22 UTC
To Charles Gilman: Yes, I think this makes sense, because although I've not played many games of Shogi, I know that Shogi is very different from chess, where material advantage is important. In Shogi, without the possibility to exchange pieces off, the side with large material advantage doesn't have a easy win, while the normal chess Knight's forking power is an advantage that is not in any way small. In addition, the Knights don't afraid capture too much, as they are only Keima in the opponent's hand; while the opponent's Keima, which can be traped with a single Silver, will become a full Knight. So the game is roughly fair anyway.

Vitya Makov wrote on 2010-01-13 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
My favourite shogi piece is Lance.

Jose Carrillo wrote on 2009-11-07 UTC
paper Shogi set:

Rich Hutnik wrote on 2008-09-10 UTCGood ★★★★
Shogi is on the XBox 360!

I just saw this on XBox Live Arcade. Shotest Shogi has been released for the XBox 360, and able to be obtained through XBox Live. It contains both traditional and symbolic notation.

You can learn more on it here:

I rate it good, because finally a console gets Shogi.

Charles Gilman wrote on 2008-08-06 UTC
My computer cannot read '¤K¤è®Û'. What is the transliteration and
translation? This is of interest to me as an authentic Japanese name for
the Knight is something that I should add to my Bishogi page.

On the unequal-armies Shogi itself, my first instinct is that 2 Knights
are no match for 6 pieces includig a Bishop and a Rook. Or is a Knight
promoted to something really powerful?

Anonymous wrote on 2008-07-16 UTC
Does anyone know '¤K¤è®Û'(Eight directions of honorable hose)? 

One player must remove his or her four pieces: rook, bishop, and both
lances from the setup, and then his or her honorable horses called
'¤K¤è®Û' can move as free as knight in Chess. 

If this player's own honorable horse is captured by the other player, the
latter could't move it as knight. 

If the fomer captures the latter's horrable horse, it could move as

Brian Guo wrote on 2008-04-19 UTC
The board layout is as follows:

   | l | n | s | g | k | g | s | n | l |
   |   | r |   |   |   |   |   | b |   |
   | p | p | p | p | p | p | p | p | p |
   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
   | P | P | P | P | P | P | P | P | P |
   |   | B |   |   |   |   |   | R |   |
   | L | N | S | G | K | G | S | N | L |

Anonymous wrote on 2007-11-05 UTC
No piece may be dropped to a square from which it will impossible to move forever, not only when dropped.

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