[ Help | Earliest Comments | Latest Comments ][ List All Subjects of Discussion | Create New Subject of Discussion ][ List Latest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]Comments/Ratings for a Single Item Later ⇩Reverse Order⇧ Earlier Honorable Horse. Moves forward as a Knight.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating] Anonymous wrote on Fri, May 7, 2010 07:09 AM UTC:I think, modern bishop is still called 'elephant' not only in Russia, but in some other countries probably too (i am not sure, but i know that modern queen is also ferz in several countries), and it's another argument that Ko shogi is made with influence of European chess, i suppose (names of Japanese and Chinese bishops (Angle mover if it's based on Shogi or officer if it's based on Xiang-qi (7 players Xiang-qi variant)) means anything, but not elephant, there are other pieces, called 'elephant'). Heavenly horse can be seen as piece, wich moves as honourable horse, but in any direction (imigine that you don't know about western knight. How you'll describe piece, wich 'moves as h.h., but in any direction now?). In first comment i was talking not about it. Isn't it amazing, that among hundreds, hundreds ofpieces in Shogi variants, there is only one piece, wich is based honourable horse? Why there is no any compound piece, wich is compound of honourable or heavenly horse with something (for example, vertical mover+honourable horse) or piece, wich makes some kind of h.h's leap (for example, moves as camel, but only in forwardmost directins)? In Xiang-qi variants there such variant of Chinese knight (for example, banner/fire/wind in game of three kindoms to normal Chinese knight is as Tamerlane camel to western knight, cavalry in 7 players XQ and Korean elephant are also such variants; there are one compound too: Yitong is rook+chinese knight+cannon, but i am not sure if it made without influence of western compound pieces). I think, it's strange... Charles Gilman wrote on Thu, May 6, 2010 06:43 PM UTC:I was replying to Jörg Knappen's previous comment. Until I followed his link I knew nothing about the game either. 🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Thu, May 6, 2010 12:43 AM UTC:Charles Gilman wrote: So how come this site doesn't have a Ko Shogi page? AFAIK, it's because no one has made one. Is it anything to do with the different piece names from most Shogi variants? Unlikely. For my part, I never even heard of the game until you asked about it here. Interesting to note that this game's players call the same piece by their word for elephant as Russians do by theirs! I'm not clear on what you're talking about. Do you mean the Drunken Elephant? Does this have anything to do with the Honorable Horse? Charles Gilman wrote on Wed, May 5, 2010 06:29 PM UTC:So how come this site doesn't have a Ko Shogi page? Is it anything to do with the different piece names from most Shogi variants? Interesting to note that this game's players call the same piece by their word for elephant as Russians do by theirs! Returning to the subject in hand (until dropped, of course!), just as this is a modified Knight another piece is a Rook modified in the same way - but the original Rook is also there, in a new position. 🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, May 5, 2010 01:25 PM UTC:I wouldn't say that the Knight was lost from Shogi. It just got modified to better fit the main feature of the game, which is dropping. Dropping a Chess Knight can be a powerful move, forking up to eight different pieces. This can also quickly reduce the clarity of the game. The Shogi Knight can fork only two pieces, which increases the clarity of the game, and makes holding a Knight in hand less of a threat to the other player. Also, since drops are allowed, a Knight that moves only forward is still useful, because a captured Knight can be dropped on spaces it wouldn't otherwise be able to reach. Jörg Knappen wrote on Wed, May 5, 2010 08:37 AM UTC:I don't think that the rook 'reappeared' in Shogi, because it was never gone. Makruk, one antecessor in the genealogical line of Shogi, also has it. What is striking is that no widely played chess variant has lost the knight completely despite the fact that it is found difficult by many beginners and even intermediate level players of chess. The knight certainly adds 'flavour' to chess and to any chess variant where it is in. The rook is another constant in chess, being there from the very beginning. Jörg Knappen wrote on Wed, May 5, 2010 08:19 AM UTC:Kō shōgi has reintroduced the classical knight (but since it was invented in the 18th century its inventor may have known the Orthochess knight) and also features two kinds of knight-based Lion-movers. The Cavalry 騎総 kisō must keep the longer direction of the knight move for its second move. The Winged horse 天馬 temba has a full double-knight Lion move. Formidable pieces, I say. John Smith wrote on Wed, May 5, 2010 06:54 AM UTC:Perhaps it is just by coincidence that the Rook reappeared. It really is an easy piece to invent, something that slides vertically or horizontally. On the other hand, the L-shaped Knight's move is a bit of an oddity. However, it is possible that someone could have generalized the Keima's move to go in all eight directions. Charles Gilman wrote on Wed, May 5, 2010 06:31 AM UTC:Given that the Rook 'reappeared' in Shogi, albeit singly rather than in pairs, it is perhaps surprising that the Knight didn't - except in the variant where one player has two Knights instead of six standard Shogi pieces. Anonymous wrote on Mon, May 3, 2010 03:27 PM UTC:There is one thing in classic Shogi variants, wich amazes me: among hundrends of pieces, there is only two pieces, wich have knight moves: this and Heavenly horse ( only in Wa Shogi), wich have also respective backward moves of Honourable horse! Of course, there is some pieces, wich technicaly can leap as knight (e.g.: Lion), but these moves just logicaly comes after common description of thier moves. For europeans it looks unbelievable, there is some piece with knight move or some it's variant almost in any variant of European chess! Note: possible, there is some other pieces with kinght's move in Taikyoku Shogi, i did not read it's description (if you know, what is Taikyoku Shogi, you know, why i did not read it's description). 10 comments displayedLater ⇩Reverse Order⇧ EarlierPermalink to the exact comments currently displayed.