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Joe Joyce wrote on Sun, Aug 23, 2009 02:35 AM UTC:

Hi, Abdul-Rahman! Nice to see you, if only in passing. You, our observer,
and Jeremy have all made comments on comments, so I thought I'd move [or
try to move] the conversation about conversation to its own thread. 

It seems this topic comes up every once in a while, in various ways. I've
even discussed it with David Howe, the current senior editor and site owner
[and thus my boss twice over here], and we both basically agree, and agree
with Jeremy, though his statement doesn't go far enough. 

It's true there are many discussions that seem long-winded and boring,
and some of us may even repeat ourselves, and some of us may even repeat
ourselves once in a while. Once in a while. ;-) But if you look/listen
carefully, there are people who agree with George or Charles or Rich or...
On rare occasions, I'm one of them. And I could easily be as bad or worse
an offender. I like writing long, convoluted papers on obscure areas of
variant chess. And so do others.

Should the editors censor the site? I will trim flame wars, but that's
all. I ask that a reply speak to the post and not to the poster. Please
play nice, don't hit your neighbor. That's when I trim. Or if we get way
off topic. This is the chess variants site. An occasional excursion into
lunar orbits or card tricks is fine, but pages of bowling scores, for
example, would be excised. [Or commercials for florists. Oddly, we keep
getting those, disguised as comments on games.]

But opinion about chess? Rambling writing? Boring, repetitive stuff? Gee,
um, look real close at what's in these pages. With all due respect,
there's not a lot of literature in here.  

This site is an open site with a few rules. We cannot censor people or
ideas we don't agree with, or we stifle our site and destoy its
usefulness. Instead, we actively encourage more people to participate. We
have gotten some new and some old [former] people onsite recently, and
that's movement in the right direction. Maorider Chess is by one of them.


Celebrate these people, or ignore them. Enjoy the ones you like. Don't
read the ones you don't like. Or debate them, politely. Please, politely.
But realize that it's up to each of you to join in the conversation.
We're not going to turn you away unless you yourself force us to. 

There is a lot of censorship here, but it's self-censorship. You choose
to not write. Instead, choose to not read the comments by those whose
writings you do not enjoy. But write about things you like, and share them
with those of us who like the same things.

Jeremy Good wrote on Sun, Aug 23, 2009 02:42 AM UTC:

Joe, I haven't read your remarks yet so this isn't a response but rather a quoting of the other comments which I wanted to move from the Maorider Chess page (out of reverence for its new and starry light). It seems we both started a separate thread simultaneously.

[These are Abdul-Rahman Sibahi's remarks made around August 22, 2009, which I've moved for sake of not clouding Maorider Chess page with less relevant discussion:]

Abdul Rahman-Sibahi: I would like to say something . The CV Pages need to come out of the endless loop of theoretical discussions of values and arrays and kilometer-long comments saying absolutely the same thing as every kilometer-long comment before them . If they ever come out from this endless loop then it might actually become an interesting place again .

The problem is , the chess variant community was built around fun , finding fun , unique games and sticking to them , and playing the heck out of them . No one ever had plans to supercede Chess , or write a PhD thesis about Chess Variants . It's all about creating fun games , and playing them , which noone does any more . (Even though I admit , I didn't play any of my games extensively . I did play a game or two of some of them , however .)

Sorry about that , had to get it off my chest .

PS . Any particular reason most commentors don't break their comments into paragraphs ?

[These remarks sparked the following comments from an anonymous poster:]

An Observer: Agree. The endless, convoluted, self-serving ramblings of Duke, Gilman, Hutnik, et. al. have ruined what was once an interesting and fun website.

[Here is my response:]

I think a separate thread should have been created for comments about comments on the site. It's a shame to put such negativity under this heading. In my own experience, this site did not once have a golden age that has been lost, but it has only been growing richer with time and contributions, as most encyclopedic sites do.

You should take from it only what you like and appreciate, while leaving the rest for others.

Abdul-Rahman, you are very sorely missed by me. You made many good contributions. I took some time off (a mistake) but am back to playing a lot on Game Courier. Carlos Cetina and I recently enjoyed playing a game of your Queen of the Night Chess. We were both surprised by how nicely it worked.

Thanks for commenting on Maorider Chess.

I recently got a chuckle when I read your comment asking me to change some colors on a preset because you thought they looked hideous.

[Which earned another response from the anonymous poster:]

An Observer: Yes, I think the editors should move my comments that don't relate to Maorider chess, a game about which I have nothing bad to say. Not being a member and not wanting to be one, I can't start a thread of my own.

Yes, this website had a golden age when you could post ideas and not worry about having them hijacked and co-opted by the small number of self-aggrandizing individuals that now dominate the forum. The forum was once a much richer and relevant place.

Joe Joyce wrote on Sun, Aug 23, 2009 06:58 AM UTC:

I agree that there should be a separate thread, but that prevents our
observer from posting. What might be the possibilities of using a
guest/guest username/password, and allowing the poster to type 'an
observer' at the bottom, where some of us put our names or pseudonyms
already?

As for fun and games, please take a look at the Game Courier log files.
Without naming anyone in particular, I can tell you that Carlos, Jeremy,
and Vitya are playing some games to death. And I believe at least one of
them expressed some enjoyment in doing so, before we got this thread really
going. And, okay, I still enjoy the heck out of my games, and I usually
enjoy the games I play in exchange. I suspect most of the people who play
here do enjoy a rather wide range of variants, and that generally includes
their own.

(I know this isn't going to work, but) tell me about the golden age of
CV.org, please. I'm always interested in hearing histories of this place.
Joe

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