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Eurasian Chess. Synthesis of European and Asian forms of Chess. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]Fergus, this certainly sounds like an interesting game. I like the fact that many of the Chaturanga pieces are retained. This game has a unique feel to it, both ancient and modern, western and eastern. The piece mix should work well. As usual, the graphics are great. I'm looking forward to trying it. Very nice!
Fergus, I see that we are equally minded. I, also, feel attracted by gathering east and west (that's the driver of my Shako, check it out). Also, I had proposed to use the 'Vao' long time ago in my Gigachess :http://chessvariants.com/large.dir/gigachess.html I called it 'crossbow', you call it 'arrow'. Les grands esprits se rencontrent !
Anonymous wrote on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 07:42 PM UTC:Hmmmm...so what would an 'Asiropean Chess' look like? :-)
I remember Shako from the large variant contest. I discovered this site shortly before that contest ended, and I voted for Shako. I'm less familiar with Giga Chess. You may be pleased to know that I considered the name of Crossbow for the Vao, and I even created a Chinese piece for it before settling on the name of Arrow. You can see it at http://www.chessvariants.com/graphics.dir/big5/index.html
I've enjoyed reading about your new game, Fergus. As a Westerner married to a Korean woman (who introduced me to Changgi, the Korean national Chess variant), I appreciated your combination of Eastern and Western pieces and movements. Well done!
Fergus, a Pawn cannot move to the last rank if there is not a captured piece to which it can promote. In that situation, can a Pawn on the second-to-last rank give check?
No, if a Pawn has nothing to promote to, it cannot give check on the last rank. Review the comments on the tournament page for when I answered this same question before.
This is one of the best mixtures of 'Oriental' and 'Western' Chess variant I have seen, not only the setup but the rules seem to be carefully designed. The result is a very strategic and positional game in which dynamics can be explosive after some point. Material advantages seem to be much less important and decisive than in Fide-Chess, but position is definitely much more important. The density of power is perhaps a bit high, but it is correct for the concept of the game, and it is one of the reasons because little material advantages are not decisive many times. I have one OBSERVATION on the Board used in Zillions implementation and in the Courier Preset: It is beautiful, but somewhat hypnotizing, and can confuse the player in some moments (Well, this is perhaps a very personal appretiation that is influenced by my ocular limitations: I´m very close to the line that divides, speaking about visual capacity, the more or less normal people, and functionally invidents. I expect I´ll be over the line for some years, but I don´t know how much time). Regardless the beauty of the board, I´ll suggest Fergus add any other set with a new plain board, perhaps using light colors, but just squares. I´ll appretiate it, much more than many other players, you must be sure.
It is not easy stablish the value of pieces in this nice game, because it depends strongly in position and in the total amount of pieces in the game. Cannon and Vao are very powerful pieces when there are many pieces in the game, but its value diminishes a lot once the game is becoming sparse. Queens are not very powerful in the initial moves, in fact, it is an uncomfortable piece when there is a high density of pieces in the game, but its value increases progressively when the game is going to simplified stages. This is a game with an initial high density of power, because Cannons and Vaos are very powerful at the beginnings. Kings are vulnerable enough, and many pieces can be tactically attacked soon, and by this reason material advantages are not as important than positional advantages. I am not going to give a table of values for this game, I think it would be of little help as orientation, the value of pieces is a function of position and the pieces in play in any moment. This criterium applies to some other games like Chess in a Larger Board with no so Few Pieces Added and Symmetron!112, between many others.
Almost a year ago, in the comment linked below, I considered changing the promotion rules of Eurasian Chess to more closely match those of Grand Chess: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/displaycomment.php?commentid=5403 I am now thinking this would be a good idea. What I have in mind is allowing Pawn promotion on any of the last three ranks, with mandatory promotion on the last rank, to any captured piece. Without any captured pieces to promote to, a Pawn could not move to the last rank, but it could still check positions on the last rank. This is how promotion is done in Grand Chess. I think this is a good idea, because it makes the game more Eurasian. The promotion rules are the same as in Grand Chess (a European variant), and the promotion zone is the same as in Shogi (a major Asian variant). Also, it is a compromise between the promotion rule in Chess (promotion on the last rank) and the promotion rule in Xiang Qi (promotion on crossing the river). As for gameplay, it compensates for the further distance from the last rank by allowing promotion earlier, which I think is one of the reasons for the rule in Grand Chess, and it compensates for the King's lesser ability to guard a Pawn making its way to the last rank. Since a King can't cross the river, all it could protect a Pawn from would be the other King, and this protection could be easily blocked by interposing a piece on the other side of the river from the King. So I will update the ZRF and Game Courier preset, and then I will change the rule description on this page.
Fergus, when you update the rules description on this page, please add a note on stalemate. Same request for Yáng Qí. In fact, I cannot find 'draw rules' on either page.
Draw rules are covered by the line that reads, 'Eurasian Chess is played like standard Chess with these differences:'. Since the differences don't include anything about drawing, the draw rules are the same as in Chess.
A fascinating blend of east and west! The 'sufficient mating material table' came as a shock to me, since I was unfamiliar with the 'Kings may never face each other' rule in Chinese Chess. In FIDE chess, [King + Knight + Knight] cannot force mate against the lone King - not unless the lone King blunders into a mate in one. But there is a famous endgame where it takes over 50 moves to mate a King accompanied by a Pawn. Still using FIDE rules for the Kings: [King + Cannon + Cannon] or [King + Cannon + Arrow] will also be an exercise in frustration. See the Comments to Antoine Fourrière's Bilateral Chess and my own Mir Chess for some examples of forced mate involving [King + Cannon + another piece].
cool
While submitting my list to the new 'What's your favourite' page I realised that I had yet to post a rating of Excellent for a variant that I have recently found very inspiring. So here it is.
One on my short list with Switching is Eurasian, because this is the CV Fergus Duniho himself held highest of his own in the 'replacement' category. The rationale is to keep the three sliders RBQ. Then add Cannon and Canon(Vao here) that are more related to Knight in their screen-capture mode. So, three of one category and three hoppers/jumper for balance. To Westerners, the River here or in Xiangqi itself may indefinitely be a distraction for facile play, but there is always a balanced logic, if not extreme novelty, in a 'Duniho'. It may make sense to keep Eurasian in top 10 for radical reform of FIDE-type. Game Courier same story as with Switching Chess: frequent play of Eurasian through 2004, one game completed almost two years ago, and nothing since.
I hate Grand Chess. It's like having Rook connection spoon-fed to you and the Pawn promotion is terrible. It's called promotion for a reason. It's not called rescuing. And if you do have that rule, why make the Pawns able to check? They cannot consummate the capture. I understand that modifying you setup's Rooks will give an undefended Pawn, but please understand.
If you don't like having Rook connection spoon-fed to you, you should be happy that the Cannons get in their way in this game. Also, you might appreciate how this game buries the Cannons, so that they cannot be brought into play right away. As for the restriction on Pawn promotions, it serves the purpose of encouraging promotion to pieces other than the Queen, and for over-the-board games, it allows the game to be played without requiring any extra pieces. Additionally, allowing Pawn promotion on any of the last three ranks more closely matches how promotion works in Shogi, giving the game yet another Asian touch. Allowing the Pawn to check on the last rank makes sense even when promotion is impossible, because if the Pawn captured the King that would end the game and the Pawn wouldn't need to move anymore anyway.
Dawson's Vao, sparsely used, needed further implementation beyond such as Fourriere's Jacks & Witches. Good work and one of the nominees at just-for-fun threads NextChess.
Good game, but it did'nt deserve to be called 'Eurasian'. There are only one piece wich is exactly Asian (Pao) and only one piece wich is exactly European (Queen). Vao is fairy chess piece, so it's neither European, nor Asian. Using piecec, wich are both European and Asian is primitive. To call game 'Eurasian' i can suggest to add these pieces: for 'Asia': Alibaba (someone might say what it also fairy piece, altrough it's combinatian of two Asian pieces, but they are wrong: there was such piece in game wich is even older than Chaturanga, it was called 'Boat', when it was replaced with alfil; i did'nt suggest to use alfil because it's to weak); Bodyguard (from Hiashatar, Mongolians and Buriatians are Asians, aren't they?); some piece, wich was used ONLY in Shogi (for example, lion from Chu Shogi); Camel from Tamerlane chess; for 'Europe': Gryghon (from Grande Acedrexe); Chanselor and Archbishop (they are pretty old pieces, and was invented in Europe); i would suggest something from Bulgarian chess, but these games are not very known, so i don't suggest it; and the main... PIECE FROM TAFL GAMES (see 'Pincer pawn' in Piececlopedia)!!! This piece is really European, and it's even older than all chess pieces!!! If there will be game, wich uses these pieces, it will really deserve to be called Eurasian!
Cannot find any information about 'Boat' or Bulgarian Chess.
Good game, but it did'nt deserve to be called 'Eurasian'.
On that, we disagree.
There are only one piece wich is exactly Asian (Pao) and only one piece wich is exactly European (Queen).
I would use the word 'exclusively' in place of 'exactly' but otherwise agree. Except for the Vao, the rest are found in both European and Asian regional variants.
Vao is fairy chess piece, so it's neither European, nor Asian.
That is a non sequitur. It is both by virtue of descent, in much the same way that a Canadian like Kristen Kreuk can be called Eurasian.
Using piecec, wich are both European and Asian is primitive.
Would you care to explain what that even means?
If there will be game, wich uses these pieces, it will really deserve to be called Eurasian!
There are, of course, other ways to make Chess variants that blend together European and Asian elements, but what you suggest would not blend together elements of the major regional variants of Europe and Asia as well as this game does, and consequently a game with the pieces you suggest would be less deserving of the name Eurasian Chess.
It's me, who written coment that this game didn't deserve it's name. Ok, maybe i am not right, but i still think that game must have some piece wich is used only in Shogi. Or at least add promotion of some pieces other than pawns (at least, promoting piece like Sage to Dragon Horse). It will make Shogi feeling a bit higer (there are nothing in this game wich is only from Shogi). About boat: sorry, i made mistake: boat had same move as alfil, i forgot it. You can read read about Bulgarian chess here: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MLbolyarchess This game is not as known as Shatar, Grande Acedrex, Tafl and others, so i will not approv if someone decide to make 'Eurasian chess' with pieces from it, i just liked Bulgarian chess and i am sad that it's not well-known, that's why i have mentioned then. So, maybe this game really deserves it's name (almost), but it's still good idea to make game with pieces from several different hystorical games.
I would like it better if you used traditional Chinese instead of the simplified (national standard) Chinese.
I have made some Shogi variants I am very happy with. This game's origins were more in Chinese Chess than in Shogi, and I think keeping some focus makes it a better game than trying to represent China and Japan equally. Despite having no pieces unique to Shogi, it does have more pieces from Shogi: King, Rook, and Bishop vs. Rook and Cannon. Also, the Cannon is truly an original Asian piece, whereas the pieces in Shogi have no powers of movement that are foreign to the pieces in Chess.
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