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Shogi. The Japanese form of Chess, in which players get to keep and replay captured pieces. (9x9, Cells: 81) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Joe Marchak wrote on Sat, May 18, 2002 01:51 PM UTC:Good ★★★★Steven wrote on Sat, May 18, 2002 02:21 PM UTC:Good ★★★★Check out www.debian.org. They have xshogi running for the Debian GNU/Linux distribution. You <i>should</i> be able to compile it for any Linux distribution if you have all of its dependencies. Here's the link to the Debian page for xshogi http://packages.debian.org/stable/games/xshogi.html.
Liz wrote on Sat, Jun 22, 2002 05:45 AM UTC:Good ★★★★A great site! I have never played Shogi but was researching it as part of a Japanese assignment ( I am an Australian year nine student). Thankyou for providing me with a better knowledge of the game and its history.
Sam wrote on Thu, Jun 27, 2002 11:45 PM UTC:Your site makes it very hard for people who can not read the Japaness symbols. You could make it easyer to read, like what you did for chinese chess. Also how you explain it, doesn't make much senes. In other words, a 7 year old boy should be able to read this and understand it perfectly. Thank you for your time.
Anonymous wrote on Tue, Jul 16, 2002 08:20 AM UTC:Good ★★★★I think some of your graphics for the promoted pieces are mixed up (I.E. Promoted rook as the same Graphic as the Promoted Silver General, which, is not right)
Lachlan wrote on Mon, Jul 22, 2002 04:39 AM UTC:Good ★★★★I noticed that the notation you provide for the pieces differs from that used in Japanese game scores; for example the opening position of the White bishop is given as 'b2' whereas in Japanese notation this position would be given as 2b. I think it's important to use the Japanese notation so that people can use game scores from competitions in Japan.
Sam wrote on Wed, Aug 14, 2002 01:56 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★Nice page it really helped me learn to play the game.
AWJ wrote on Fri, Sep 6, 2002 07:37 PM UTC:Good ★★★★Good overview of the game, but the images of the pieces need to be much larger--the Japanese characters on each piece are no more than undistinguishable four-pixel squiggles.
On the side bar there is a link called 'links to shogi variants.' this link no longer works, i get a message saying this index has moved and it's redirecting me automatically, but then it just takes me to the main index.
Javier wrote on Fri, Dec 6, 2002 09:43 PM UTC:Good ★★★★I have discovered that most resources for shogi are in Japanese, and resources (including web sites and software) in English about shogi are hard to find. Here is a collection of essential links about shogi in English. It covers virtually every good shogi site and program that exists in English, and thus is a comprehensive and essential list of links. ------------------ RULES/INTRODUCTION http://homepages.ed.ac.uk/rjhare/shogi/intro.htm http://www.chessvariants.com/shogi.html http://www.ricoh.co.jp/SHOGI/rules/erules.html http://www.hollandnumerics.demon.co.uk/SHOGIRULE.HTM http://boardgames.about.com/library/weekly/aa090399.htm ------------------ STRATEGY http://www.shogi.net/nexus/ukekata/index.html (How to Defend in Shogi) http://www.shogi.net/kakugen/ (Shogi Proverbs) http://www.shogi.net/noda/quest-all.html http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-King/7596/QuestKakuKawari01.htm (Book on Shogi Openings Part 1 & 2) ------------------ JAVA PLAYING ONLINE http://www.shogidojo.com/eng/engindex.htm (Shogi Club 24) http://www.javashogi.jp/~board-e/ (JavaShogi - need firewall off) http://games.yahoo.com/games/login2?page=shg (Yahoo) Very good and in English, but mostly deserted http://games.yahoo.co.jp/ (Japanese Yahoo server) Shogi PlayByEmail server http://www.gamerz.net/pbmserv/ ------------------ PLAYING SOFTWARE http://www.netspace.net.au/~trout/index.html (ShogiVariants) http://www.nexus.carleton.ca/~ttidman/WinShogi/index.html (WinShogi) http://www.zillionsofgames.com/games/index.html (Zillions variants - search for 'Shogi' on page) http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/pmturune/Shocky_e.html (Shocky) http://members.ozemail.com.au/~alpearce/sho.html (ShogiGold) http://www.cs.caltech.edu/~mvanier/hacking/gnushogi/gnushogi.html ftp://ftp.uni-passau.de/pub/local/shogi (GNUshogi for Unix) http://www.m-net.ne.jp/~sekita/english.html (Sekita Shogi) http://www.fu.is.saga-u.ac.jp/~grimberg/SHOGI/SPEAR/spearmain.html (Spear Ver.5) ------------------ DATABASE SOFTWARE http://www.ibridge.be/shogi/ (GNSB - GNU Shogi Database Project) http://foreninger.uio.no/shogi/shogiopening/ (ShogiOpening) ------------------ LINKS http://www.shogi.net/shogi.html http://www.ff.iij4u.or.jp/~jun1/shogi_link_e.html ------------------ DISCUSSIONS http://www.shogi.net/shogi-l.html (SHOGI-L mailing list) fa.shogi (newsgroup which mirrors SHOGI-L) ------------------ GAMES http://www.shogi.net/ladder/mygames.html (amateur) http://www.fu.is.saga-u.ac.jp/~grimberg/SHOGI/kifu.html (professional, annotated) ------------------ TSUME SHOGI (mating problems) http://www.ricoh.co.jp/SHOGI/emate/mate.html http://www.shogi.net/nexus/ladder/help.html ------------------ FEDERATIONS http://www.platz.jp/~tanase/csf/csf.html Canadian Shogi Federation
Does anyone know what the relative piece values are for the pieces in Shogi? I am currently working on updating my Shogi ZRF, and I would like to tweak the piece values to approximate what they should be.
my understanding of shogi is that because of drops, piece values such as given in chess are not meaningful or useful. in the fairbairn book he spends more than 2 pages (83-85) discussing relative piece worth and things you should take into consideration, and how you should think about it, and what other people say about the subject. but nowhere does he give values, and he says 'japanese professionals refuse to answer that question.' later he adds that he is trying 'to correct the distortion introduced by many western writers who insist on ascribing values to the pieces.' in other words, from fairbairn's perspective - and i've seen nothing in shogi to suggest that he is wrong and plenty to suggest that he's right - tweaking the values of the pieces in zillions will not make it play any better.
Since pieces never disapear from the game, in shogi the values are all positional. That is pieces in hand can be considered as just another position for the pieces to be. and that value is assessed for a position taking into account of the positions of all pieces including those in hand and whose turn it is. So in a sense it is more like go, only holistic evaluation can be done.
Piece values will be more elastic in Shogi than in FIDE Chess--there will be more positions in which a Bishop is stronger than a Rook, for example. But Shogi piece values do exist. Try this thought experiment: Give one player both Bishops and both Rooks and the other player four Lances. The player starting with the Rooks and Bishops will win every game (assuming that there is not a gross disparity in skill). This must mean that Rooks and Bishops are more valuable than Lances--and if there is a difference, it is possible in principle to quantify it. 'The Value of Shogi Pieces' is simply a tougher problem than (the ridiculously difficult problem) 'The Value of Chess Pieces' and the answers will have a higher level of uncertainty.
As the script stands right now, piece values are falling into approximately what Michael Howe suggests. Two Gold Generals have a value between the value of a Bishop and the value of a Rook. A Lance plus a Knight is worth around the same as a General, though Zillions values a Lance more than twice as much as a Knight. In a previous script, Zillions valued the Gold General almost as much as the Bishop, and the new script was able to beat it. But since the old script inflated its value with redundant code, it could have lost from having to use more processor time, rather than from valuing the Gold General too much. But in observing the game while mediating between two runs of Zillions, its overvaluing of the Gold General did seem to be a liability.
My computer and I may be setting the record for the longest Shogi game ever. Actually, it might be a never-ending game. It began with a game my Shogi ZRF was playing against Shocky 2.05. Zillions thought it foresaw a loss in two moves, then proceeded to lose against Shocky. But I thought it was wrong in its judgement. So after the game ended, I went back a couple moves, switched sides, then played against Zillions the side Zillions had been playing against Shocky. I continued the game several more moves, until I saw that the game was very drawish. I had moved my King to the opposite side of the board, where I kept it well protected. Zillions had more pieces and had moved its King beyond my reach. So I turned both sides over to the computer and let it run all night. When I looked at the game in the morning, over 1400 turns had passed, and it was as drawish as ever. Both Kings were on opposite sides of board, all promotable pieces were promoted, and both Kings were very well guarded. I let the game continue while I went to work. Over 2200 turns had passed, and it was still very drawish. I then shut it off and saved the ZSG. I may continue the game later to see if it ever has a resolution.
'Both Kings were on opposite sides of board...' I'm not a shogi player, but isn't that situation called 'jishogi' or 'impasse'? It is recognized that the game cannot end normally and the winner is determined by awarding points for material. I think it is also referred to as 'entering kings'.
Found the jishogi rule at http://www.ricoh.co.jp/SHOGI/rules/erules.html
'Both players have moved their King into the the promotion zone (or they
cannot be prevented to do so) and the Kings cannot be checkmated. In that
case the players may decide to count their pieces where the King does not
count, the Rook and Bishop count as 5 points, and all other pieces as one
point. Promotion is disregarded. If both players have at least 24 points
the game is a draw ('Jishogi'). If a player has less, he loses the
game.
Of course, a player can refuse to count pieces when he still has mating
chances or chances to gain material which would affect the outcome of the
counting. There is no strict rule about what to do if this is not the
case, but nonetheless a player refuses to count up (e.g. because he does
not have enough points for a draw). It has been generally accepted that in
such a case the game ends and the pieces are counted after one player has
managed to get all his pieces protected in the promotion zone.'The game finally ended yesterday. In the hope that it might cause one side to make enough mistakes to lose, I let Zillions continue the game with only one second thinking time for each side. White checkmated Black on the 10,065th move.
Charles Gilman wrote on Sun, Apr 13, 2003 10:22 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★I have noticed an interesting paradox arising from the positioning of the Soldiers and limited move of the Hon. Horse. In standard Chess and its predecessors the leapers (Knight and, in the early versions, Elephant) are the only non-Pawns that can make the first move. In Shogi the Hon. Horse in the only piece that CANNOT make the first move!
Charles Gilman wrote on Fri, Apr 18, 2003 07:46 AM UTC:Correction to my last comment: the Hon. Horse is the only piece on the first rank that cannot make the first move.
tori watson wrote on Thu, Jul 10, 2003 10:37 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★I make go boards chungi sets and shogi sets and have found your site invaluable in helping me get clear on the finer points of the rules. I have been making the chungi for a while and have only just started making shogi sets and have not started to sell them yet. I only decided to make a shogi set after viewing your site. Like fergus Duniho I have tried to westerize the pieces for easier play, I had done a similar thing with my chungi. The almost 2 completed shogi sets have taken for ever to and i will probably have to put a fairly high price on them. I make them from maranti wood with a pacific maple board and am going to try and sell the three (go, chungi, shogi) on e bay. I sell a small number through game shops in melbourne australia but with their 100% mark up I dont sell them regularily and dont make much money. I would like to send you a picture of the shogi set i have almost finished if that is ok but it will take a bit longer. I also thought i had played the most exciting chess when i played chungi, but shogi is probably even better and just gets so dynamic towards the end as pieces are dropping in etc, i love it. I dont have a computer so please dont be offended if i do not reply for a while. Once again excellent site. Tori watson. watsontori@hotmail.com
Serguei wrote on Fri, Oct 24, 2003 05:49 AM UTC:Good ★★★★Russian Shogi pages: 'Shogi In Russia' - http://www.shogi.sp.ru/; 'Byelorussian Shogi Assotiation' - http://shogi.at.tut.by/default.html download Cut-out shogi set(pieces, board) + english version; 'Assotiation Russian Shogi Players' - http://shogi-arsi.narod.ru/; 'Ukrainian Shogi Federation' - http://shogi.in.net.ua/ download cut-out shogi pieces; 'Vadim Filippov's Shogi Page' - http://www.go.hobby.ru/shogi/
Anonymous wrote on Mon, Nov 17, 2003 09:09 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★yippe
Charles Gilman wrote on Wed, Dec 10, 2003 08:53 AM UTC:I take an interest in the names of pieces in different languages, and had a look for the Russian names for Shogi pieces on the sites listed by Serguei, but could not find them. Could Serguei provide a list?
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