Enter Your Reply The Comment You're Replying To H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Oct 26, 2008 12:18 PM UTC:| Muller, no, it's not written in the same language as Axiom. Axiom | is not an engine. It is a language, close to Forth, which is used | for writing engines for Zillions. From the way I understand the Axiom description, this is not correct. Axiom is a general-purpose game-tree-search engine that uses the interface and protocol specifications of ZoG, and can thus be used as a plug-in for the ZoG GUI. Axiom can be customized for a specific game through a powerful scripting language ressembling Forth. But the script in no way describes an independent engine capable of playing the game being described. It merely serves to inform the Axiom engine (a binary executable in DLL form) of the peculiarities of this game (the rules for making moves and the goal, with perhaps some strategic clues like piece values). Just like ZoG contains an intrinsic AI that can be configured through ZRF files with a lisp-like language, and Fairy-Max can be configured through game descriptions that are lists of step-vectors for the participating pieces in the fmax.ini file. The Axiom language is only powerful because it includes primitives that activate the power of the engine in the DLL. | Moreover, advanced chess engines foremostly draw their strength | from advanced algoritm techniques, and certainly not only well-tuned | piece-values. Sure, you got to have both. Buth the algorithmic techniques are well known, and comparativey easy to program. Using all search tecniques that are publicly known, together with simple but not too rudimentary evaluation, brings you at about 2400 Elo. (On the CCRL scale, where Rybka ~3000 and Fairy-Max ~ 2000). The remaining strengt must come from selective pruning of moves that seem poor, or superior strategic insight that cannot realistically be replaced by extra search depth, and both requires expert knowledge of the game being played. | Anyway, I only tried to give you some interesting ideas. Axiom is a | clever thing. Ideas are always welcome, but this one simply 'doesn't fly'. Axiom is clever, in particular because of its generality. That doesn't mean, however, that it would automatically any game you give it a script for very well. Its author stated that Axiom was mainly meant for connection games like Go, and that for simple Chess-like games the ZoG intrinsic AI might actually play stronger. But in both cases it will depend strongly how wel the script that defines the game is written. And I can easily imagine that you run into a barrier there much earlier in the ZRF language tan in the Axiom language. But that in itself does not imply that it would be easier to write a strong Axiom script. It seems that the Axiom engine nowadays also has an accompanying free GUI, btw, so it can be used indepedently of ZoG. Greg Schmidt (the Axiom author) pointed out to me, however, that ZoG does not have as good an engine-GUI separation as I thought. It can use plug-in engines, but for almost none of the games there exist ZRF files for it actually does so. These games are all handled by the AI that is intrinsic and inseparable from the GUI. So it is not possible to play 99%+ of all ZoG games in any other way than through the ZoG GUI. Which is then only capable of playing them against a Human (or Human-operated computer) opponent. That makes ZoG quite useless as an entity to communicate with. It simply has nothing to say... Edit Form You may not post a new comment, because ItemID Zillions and GC does not match any item.