Comments by panther

Hi Aurelian

My opinion would be just one man's, and I'm relatively new to chess variants myself. Fergus may be right in that familiar pieces may give a game a head start as far as being more accepted, say in becoming heavily played on Chess Variant Pages' Game Courier (possibly with some time needed for a game to become more and more popular). That's if you take the trouble to make a Game Courier preset for your game. It might encourage you that I'd guess Shogi (Japanese Chess) may have seemed a little strange to people right after it was first invented, as far as having certain pieces with asymmetrical, complex movements goes (e.g. the Gold & Silver Generals). The road of a pioneer or inventor is not always a smooth or sure one. I've felt in my gut that chess variants I've invented may excite people, only to change my mind later in a lot of cases (though I'm prone to changing my mind a lot, anyway). As far as my tastes go, I like games with fairly simple rules, boards and piece movements, but there are a lot of people who play what I think are strange or uninteresting chess variants, at least on Game Courier.

I've tried websearches to find figures for the number of people worldwide who play the 3 "Classic" chess variants (Western Chess, Shogi and Chinese Chess), as given on this website (CVP) under "Recognized Variants", and I've had some success.

Previously I've noted on this website that, circa 2012, FIDE had a report on its website that 600 million (adults) are estimated to play chess.

The figure for Shogi was quite a lot less, assuming the link below refers to the global number of players, rather than those just for Japan.  Less than 10 million in 2006, it seems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_shogi#Changes_in_the_shogi_population

I couldn't find a figure for Chinese chess, except the old entry for it on this website (CVP) estimates millions, or tens of millions, worldwide.

By way of comparison, the board game of Go (not a chess variant), which involves no luck also, is claimed to have had well over 40 million players worldwide in 2008:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)

A couple of questions for Fergus:

Regarding the rule enforcing preset for Glinski's Hexagonal Chess, am I correct that it scores a stalemate as a 1/2-1/2 draw, rather than 3/4-1/4 for one side (as per the rules noted on that variant's webpage on CVP)?

If yes, am I correct that Game Courier supports only three possible results for any finished game result being recorded for rating purposes by Game Courier, i.e. 1-0, 0-1 or 1/2-1/2?

Note to Fergus:

In case it hasn't been pointed out, the editing feature for Kibbitz comments doesn't work. I tried to edit a recent Kibbitz post of mine, and was told (in spite of being logged in) that my password didn't match (I re-tried several times, with the same result). Not only that, but all Kibbitz comments that I can see, even if I didn't write them, offer me the option to edit them (but not to 'reply' to any Kibbitz post, if that's supposed to be an option offered).

At the end of the Notes section I've now added a setup diagram for an alternative 4D variant that I've suggested that's called "Slim 4*Chess", which has the same rules as 4*Chess, except it uses slightly less pieces (i.e. 80, instead of 96).

Greg Strong wrote:

"...You can open one of the Chess presets, click Edit to modify it, and just erase all the code in the seven boxes at the bottom to stop it from enforcing any rules.  Then, in the first box, change the name from Chess to Asymmetric Chess, enter your user id and password, and click Save.  It will give you a link that you can then use to send out invitations to play..."

As an experiment I tried doing this procedure for making a preset with a simple chess variant of mine called "Throne Chess" instead (same rules as chess, except playing K to K8 is an extra victory condition, "Thronemate"). I had some success, but I saw nowhere that a little PBM green box icon symbol for a Throne Chess preset had been created, with myself credited as the author. There was created a default file for Throne Chess, stored under my user ID, in Game Courier's programmer's file log system. Throne Chess was not showing as having, say, 0 games played for it so far under "All Games" in the Game Courier Menu though. I edited the 'settings name' from default to be called Throne Chess, later, along with redirecting the default file version to it, too, but still no little PBM green box preset icon showing anywhere upon searching the website. I'm wondering if I have to do something rather complicated, or beyond me, instead of my doing what was recommended to Dmitry, to get a little PBM green box preset icon to come into existence (without having to play anyone a game online first).

Hi Fergus

I don't know how to program in HTML (way rusty at any sort of programming, in fact). Is there an exact line(s) of code you could tell me where to insert? I'd very much hoped to avoid programming & testing a rule enforcing preset, at least for now, but if you think it's easy for a layman like me, I'll look at it.

P.S.: I made an additional preset called "Throne Chess (Rules Enforcing)". For now, pending further editorial review, I'll give it via a link in the Introduction, with it intended to be rules enforcing, pending necessary changes made to it. That's plus a 2nd link, to a non-rules enforcing preset called "Throne Chess" (with a setting of the same name), in case unforseen problems arise with the rules enforcing one, or users prefer having the choice of the 2 types of presets.

If you wish the titles of both the rules enforcing & non-rules enforcing presets to be each "Throne Chess", I naturally can piecewise cut & paste any rules enforcing program instructions already found within "Throne Chess (Rules Enforcing)" into yet a 3rd preset I made earlier called "Throne Chess" (my default setting one, i.e. it's not for either of the presets given via the 1st and 2nd links in the Introduction). That's assuming you like the idea of having both the rules & non-rules enforcing types of presets available for this variant.

P.P.S.: Without thoroughly reading Game Courier programming instructions, by trial & error I successfully entered about a dozen lines of code that seemed to get the Rules Enforcing preset for Throne Chess to work, as far as checking for Thronemate victory conditions. I tested it once, anyway, advancing the White king up the board to e8 as quickly as possible, from the setup position. I used the "Test" feature in the "Edit" mode of the preset to play this short test game vs. myself. I'm not sure if it's normal, but after the program declared that White has won by Thronemate, I was allowed to continue to enter moves in the Test mode. I'm pretty sure there's nothing I did wrong in telling the program code to end the game, normally, with the 'won' command.

Hi Fergus

My quandry is, I'm now thinking I should show actual reflecting bishop & squirrel figurines (rather than bishop & knights figurines) in the Introductory page setup diagram (i.e. as in my preset's current setup diagram). However, I recall the Diagram Designer doesn't support circular chess types of diagrams (I also recall attempting to make such a diagram). I've yet to learn another way to make such a circular diagram, excluding within a preset itself.

I'm not sure how fussy I should be. For example, the setup diagram on the Introductory page to the regular Circular Chess preset has the files labelled, while the diagram for its preset has no such labelling (presumably due to a technical problem doing so); otherwise those diagrams are the same. Potential good news in my case is that I discovered that the Auto Utrecht piece set found within the Diagram Designer seems to have matching figurines for the setup diagram that I used on the Introductory page to my preset, but there is still the vexing matter of whether to use reflecting B & squirrel figurines, instead of minor pieces. If I did, the Auto Utrecht piece set lacks these pieces' exact figurines, though I might consider using upside down minor piece figurines for them instead, if I used the Auto Utrecht piece set (or I could omit the Introductory page setup diagram entirely, as other folks have done in the past). P.S.: I decided against this; I duplicated the Introductory page setup diagram perhaps as best I could, as far as the Preset setup diagram went, which I think is what you were requesting.

Hi Fergus

In following Game Courier instructions, I found my way to a page about diagram colours, though there's tons of them to search through, if I wish to try to match all 3 colours of my Diagram Designer generated hexagonal diagram, so as to edit my preset to use the right colours. For now I'll leave out a Diagram Designer generated diagram, i.e. just give the link to the preset, since it seems it would take a lot of time to search through the available colours. If that's not alright, I'll try to find time to do the searching at some point, so as to attempt to make a colours-matching preset hexagonal diagram.

P.S.: It dawned on me, finally, to simply copy the Diagram Designer default colours, which I used for the diagrams in my original non-preset webpage (with Rules, Notes etc.), and use those colours in my preset diagram. My apologies Fergus; my medications & sub-par health take their toll at times, in making my brain rather foggy.

I've (hopefully) slightly corrected the prose description of the Butterfly's move that was added in earlier by Fergus, in that I think I spotted that there's a Camel move (i.e. 1,3) component to the Butterfly's 2 forward-sideways moves move, too, rather than a Knight move (i.e. 1,2) component to those 2 forward-sideways moves. Again hopefully, my wording of that part is sufficiently clear in the submission, at least to those who visit this website.

For those interested in this variant, I'd note that I also very recently submitted a preset for this game, for editorial review.

I've edited my first comment extensively, now. Regardless, I think I did as you requested.

I've edited my previous comment.

P.S.: I did so several times more. Regardless, I think I did as you requested.

I've edited my last comment. Regardless, I think I did as you requested.

Note to Fergus:

I've now dealt with refining the various preset submissions I've made that are pending further editorial review (perhaps as best as I can in a couple of cases, for now at least, though I think I did as you requested). That's with the occasional [edited] comment added, too.

I had thought the rule I put forward was clear: the move K-K8 has to be [otherwise] legal in order to win (and if it does, it wins instantly). Therefore, K-K8 can't be played if the King would be moving into check. I assumed the preset (as I had it) checked for that condition before moving on to checking for Thronemate. I've now stipulated to that effect in the preset's Rules section to make it absolutely clear to players; I've also stipulated that a Thronemate overrides what would otherwise be a stalemate result or the 50 move rule.

P.S.: I've tried using your new preset code (chess3) for chess to base my own latest code on, for my Throne Chess rules enforcing preset. My testing so far on the latest version of this preset suggests it correctly announces checks, and Thronemates. However, in case of the latter, when playing vs. myself in Test mode (after going into Edit mode), I still am able to continue to enter moves after Thronemate is announced - though the test play persists in stating that White has won in the gamescore box (i.e. not on the top of the screen) - I still don't know if this would be normal in Test mode if the preset is properly enforcing rules.

In case you missed it Fergus, the setup diagram in my preset for Carrousel Chess is now (and was before your last post) looking like the setup diagram on my Introductory page for it, thanks to Game Courier preset diagramming that I did. If that's not turning out to be acceptable, I don't know how to do what you suggested with your last post, as bad as that sounds. in that at the least I don't know where/how to access my membersgraphics directory (or alternatively, what is cropping, assuming I may have a graphics program somewhere?; I've also never tried to upload to CVP).

I regret I didn't save the setup diagram that I originally had for the preset here, with reflecting bishops & squirrels, and I'm slightly depressed about the idea of redoing that, not to mention the idea of waving goodbye to the effort of making the current preset diagram as well.

Hi Joe

My 'Carrousel Chess' variant (preset pending final review) uses reflecting bishops (and squirrels) instead of bishops (and knights) in what is otherwise straight Circular Chess. On such a round board, when it's empty, reflecting bishops are in effect "Missiles" of full strength, since on an empty board they can bounce their way off the edges around to every cell of their colour on the board. I was afraid that Carrousel Chess might be unplayable, or the moves of the reflecting bishops too hard to visualize, as the game unfolds, but perhaps time will tell.

I've corrected my Notes section slightly, in regard to handling a couple of early primitive threats White can make early, from the setup position.

Note to Fergus:

My attempt at a rules enforcing preset for Throne Chess (by modifying chess3) might be up to snuff now; please have a look. Also, could someone tell me how I might access my CVP membersgraphics directory. It's for in case the preset diagram I have for a variant (i.e. Carrousel Chess) isn't up to snuff, when I may then wish to redo said preset diagram and then upload it, to replace the diagram I currently have for the setup on that variant's original webpage (that includes Notes etc.), so that the two diagrams would match.

A seperate comment on Throne Chess: note that my estimates for the values of the chess pieces seems applicable here too: P=1; N=3.49; B=3.5; R=5.5; Q=10 and a fighting value of K=4.

I'm posting another diagram, for my study at leisure, which might form the basis of a variant:

Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year to everyone, on this Winter Solstice Day above the equator.