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@Fergus: I have an access to Discord. I checked this link but it drives me to an empty place. So I can't help more.

I found I have a Discord id and password in Edge, but I see the same thing as you and don't know where to go from there. I searched for communities on Chinese Chess and Xiangqi but didn't find any promising leads.

So, Z.Su#34 cites a video of Cannon Shogi being played on Zillions-of-Games. This game was created in 1998 and features a Copper Cannon, which moves like a Vao. This game uses diagrammatic pieces and does not use Chinese characters, though the video is on a Chinese website. Then @gbtami mentions calling the diagonal xiangi cannon 弩, though he doesn't supply any context to indicate who exactly it is who uses this name, and not knowing anything @gbtami, I do not know whether he is Chinese himself. He expresses disapproval of a character that looks something like someone wearing a hat. Z.Su#34 recommends the crossbow character and the bow character. I agree that this is a good choice, and I have also made bow pieces.

In terms of appearance, I do like these better than the arrow character, and using a bow for one side and a crossbow for the other fits in with how some sets use slightly different characters for the pieces on each side. So this is a viable option, though it is a suggestion someone made on Discord and not an established practice among the Chinese. While I do favor the appearance of the bow character, the arrow character also means vow, and that is what led me to favor it.

gbtami didn't mention that. gbtami is mentioned by Z.Su#34 >_< (zhennan.su).

I remember now Cannon Shogi, then invented by Peter Michaelsen, a bright game historian from Denmark. He made precious contributions on the history of boardgames in the Scandinavian area. We corresponded about Gala, Hnefatafl, Daldos, Sakkhu and other games. A nice person, hello to him if he reads these lines.

and not knowing anything @gbtami, I do not know whether he is Chinese himself.

I think he is Hungarian, the programmer of PyChess.

I think he is Hungarian, the programmer of PyChess.

Yes, check out his profile on GitHub)

Okay, it looks like it was two relevant comments from Z.Su#34>_<. This person might be Chinese given that the video he posted was on a Chinese website. From the context, it seems that gbtami, whom HG identified as the programmer of PyChess, suggested 投 and 殳 for the diagonal cannon. He first corrected him by saying that "we" call it 弩, though he didn't say who "we" was or how long this usage had been going on. In the next comment, he made the suggestion of using both 弩 (crossbow) and 弓 (bow) together in the same pattern as 炮 and 包. While considering the bow and crossbow characters years ago, I settled on 矢, which means arrow or vow, as arrow has a similar meaning to bow or crossbow, and vow sounds like vao. If we wanted a more complex character for the side that uses them, 侯, meaning marquis, or 矰, meaning an arrow with a cord attached for shooting birds, might do.

Hi there, this is Z.Su#34 himself :) I am a Chinese video uploader, and have been interested in chess variants for about 10 years. As far as I know, the name 弩 has been used for a translation for vao since 2014 , however it is derived from 弩车(Ballista), not crossbow, because both 炮 and 弩 are types of ranged siege machine. This is widely accepted in Chinese forums. If you need further infomation, I will be pleased to help.

@ Zhennan Su: very interesting thank you

I am a Chinese video uploader, and have been interested in chess variants for about 10 years. As far as I know, the name 弩 has been used for a translation for vao since 2014

Since that year coincides with the beginning of your interest in Chess variants, I am wondering if this usage actually began in 2014 or if that's simply as far back as you're personally aware. My own use of 矢 goes back to 2001, but I am not Chinese.

It is interesting to note that a piece named 弩 (Nu) is reported in qiguo xiangqi (seven-player xiangqi), a variant that would have been reported by Sima Guang in the 11th century!

The move was not that of a modern Vao though.

I went through some forums and found 弩 for Vao more earlier in Dec 2012. Check out this link: https://tieba.baidu.com/p/2029251770 . However, no matter when it began, 弩 for Vao has been widely known now in Chinese community. I can provide more infomation if you need.

It is interesting to note that a piece named 弩 (Nu) is reported in qiguo xiangqi (seven-player xiangqi)

That 弩 is a crossbow marksman actually :)

The game described here is similar to my own Eurasian Chess. It has the same pieces plus the Elephants from Xiangqi or maybe Janggi, as I saw multiple references to Korean Elepants in the translated comments. It also uses the same characters as I did for the Bishop and Queen. It would be worthwhile to have a page on it here, but the machine translation I got is not very good. Could you help with that? I could write it up if I know what the rules and pieces are.

My own use of 矢 goes back to 2001

That reminds me of something. Some of Chinese users use 矢 before 弩 goes in common. 弩 can be expanded more than 矢 (for example, 连弩 神机弩 重弩 弩炮), making 弩 more useful to make variants with promotion. Also 弩 and 炮 are both machine units.

Despite this game is something like a prototype of the final game, I'd be glad to do that. I'll send the rules by e-mail later, with some explanation about those comments and some further info.

The setup is different from Eurasian Chess.

The name of page is: Improved version of Chinese and Western chess (not sure if it is the name of the game also)

From what I understand, the Elephant 象 plays as International Chess Bishop. Pawn, Rook, Knight, King, Queen are identical to Int. Chess. Cannon is like in xiangqi, and Crossbow, 弩, is a diagonal cannon.

The "Holy", 圣, is not a Bishop. Its move is not clear to me, it is said to attack 12 squares.

Then we have: 3rd rank: 10 Pawns 2nd rank: void/N/Crossbow/B/Holy/Holy/B/Crossbow/N/void 1st rank: R/Cannon/void/void/Q/K/void/void/Cannon/R Both sides mirror each other.

My understanding after reading the other comments of the Chinese page is that the Holy or Sage is moving as FAD in Betza's.

It is a colorbound piece, which is discussed in the comments.

The Sage is FC in Betza's. It was changed to a simple (3,1)-leaper in the final version.

Thank you for this information. Did this game had a name and who is the inventor, do you know that?

Thank you for this information. Did this game had a name and who is the inventor, do you know that?

The English name is Esperanto Chess. I have no info about the inventor's real name. The Pawn is a little bit different, and there's a King-Faceoff rule. If you need a simple introduction, I can send it by E-mail.

I probably need.