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Charles Gilman wrote on Sat, Dec 28, 2013 07:29 AM UTC:
Daniil Frolov appears to have created a brand new piece in a comment on this page in the analogue to the Mao. All the other analogues - to FIDE, XQ, and even Shogi pieces - are describable in Man and Beast terms. Orthogonal pieces are transformed into Queenwise ones just as they are in my Dual Direction Variants: Rook to Queen, General to King, Cannon to Tank, Point to Princeling, Superpoint to Superprinceling, and Wing to Princess. Diagonal peces are transformed into Knightwise ones: Bishop to Nightrider, Ferz to Knight, and Stepping Elephant to Short-leap Charolais. Knightwise leapers themselves are transformed into compuond leapers: Knight to Bison and Helm to Terrace. Queenwise pieces become the Ace- pieces of Man and Beast pages 08 and 19: King to Aceruler, Queen to Acerider, Gold to Superminiace and Silver to Underace. Evewn the piece into which the Pawn is transformed can be described in Man and Beast 19 terms as a Caddied Pawncross. The Mao analogue had no obvious analogue.

So what might this pece me termed? It might be worth trying naming it nased on its move, which is a radial step followed by an "outward" Knightwise one to reach a Bison destination. The best way that I can think of to illustrate this is by marking destinations as upper-case A-H and the required pass-through square by the equivalent lower-case letter, as follows:

.BA.AH.
B.....H
C.bah.G
..c@g..
C.def.G
D.....F
.DE.EF.
The destinations are clearly Bison ones, but it is weaker than the Bison as the Mao is weaker than the Leaping Knight. It is however stronger than George Duke's Falcon as it has the latter's first-perimeter pass-through square but can leap over second-perimeter pieces.

At fist I thought of combining the Bi of Bison and Fa of Falcon anf came up with Fabian, the name of a fairly famous ancient Roman politician, but then I wondered whether it might be better to go for something with the C and A so that "King followed by outward..." (Kfbo) could be extrapolated to things other than the Knight. Extrapolating based on Falcon would not make sense as Kfbo Camel has Giraffe and Charolais destinations as against the Fantail's Zemel and Charolais ones, Kfbo has Charolais and Antelope destinations as against the Puffin's Charolais and Rector ones, et cetera.

I do have the precedent of a one-off that can't be extrapolated in Workhorse for a Pawned Helm when my name for the Pawned Knight, Challenger, can be extrapolated. Thus a Pawned Zebra is a Zhellenger whereas I have no one-word name for a Pawned Stripe. However I do have the phrase to describe it, and there could me case for changing Workhorse as well - but I digress. back to Daniil Frolov's new piece.

With so many piece names starting with C already I about a Mar- word, modelled on Marshal. Theoretically this could ectrapolated across the board regardless of the SOLL's remainder modulo 4. Thus if for example Kfbo Knight were a Marauder the one with Kfbo Camel would be a Camauder, Kfbo Zebra a Zebauder, Kfbo Giraffe a Girauder, Kfbo Antelope an Antauder, Kfbo Zemel a Zemauder, et cetera.

One thing that this does make me notice, however, is that King followed by outward non-coprime piece is interestng too as its destinations often include coprime ones. Thus Kfbo Dabbaba has Trebuchet/Camel destinations, Kfbo Elephant has Zebra/Tripper ones, Kfbo Trebuchet has Cobbler/Giraffe ones, Kfbo Charolais has Satyr/Gimel ones, and so on. Should I try extraplating to these as well and call them Dabauder et cetera? A problem is that Charolais and Chamois have the same first 3 letters. Should I use 4 letters in the case of the non-coprime ones?

Any further thougts are welcome.


Daniil Frolov wrote on Sat, Dec 28, 2013 09:44 AM UTC:
Still, Falcon have some moves, this pieces can't fulfil. If one of
adjecent squares is occuppied, this pieces loses 2 destination squares,
while Falcon is still able to move anywhere he can with free paths.

George Duke wrote on Sat, Dec 28, 2013 04:24 PM UTC:
Thanks for featuring Falcon/Bison, Charles.  ChessboardMath6 has many different "Falcons" arriving at same
Falcon/Bison squares just beyond the Knight:
http://www.chessvariants.org/index/listcomments.php?subjectid=ChessboardMath6.  They include: (1) Osprey, (2) Bison, (3) Fourriere Falcon.  There is only one Orthodox Falcon and all others to exclusive (1,3) plus (2,3) are heterodox including Bison. There is only one Orthodox Rook and all others to its (0,n) are heterodox, including Ramayana Buddha and limited Sissa. (follow-up elsewhere emphasizes standard f.i.d.e. 64-square form is flawed without 4 basics F,R,N,B, not simplemindedly three only)

 Chess variants often rename piece-types acknowledging origination: 17th-century Centaur and Champion have score of names by now.  Beyond mere naming, given piece-type is technically even legitimately "new" if it has different pathway(s) than earlier one to all-same arrival squares.  Past Gnu (1,2 plus 1,3) in travel length, the better oblique piece-types are multi-path and usually least-path. Except a very few of these fixed-length sliders -- Scorpion, Dragon, Phoenix -- none of them have names yet, with potentially thousands needed.  It is understandable Man & Beasts has to begin with oblique leapers and their compounds all far from ideal in play. For example Beastmaster's awkward leapers in Zillions would far better interact under rules of blocking and blockability.

Charles Gilman wrote on Mon, Dec 30, 2013 07:56 AM UTC:
Daniil Frolov has managed it againn in Waterfall Xiang Qi. The analogues to the General and to some but not all Point promotees appear to be entirely new pieces.

The pieces on the middle level and the middle filestack, save for their intersection, are of course standard Xiang Qi pieces, albeit ones able to leave that level or filestack and reach the rest of the board. Of the pieces on the long diagonals of ranks the Guards are Man and beast 01 Viceroys (as acknowledged) and the Eunuchs Man and Beast 06 Stepping Eunuchs, while the Battering rams, Fireworks, and Mules are Brooks, Acannons, and Stepping Nsextons from Man and Beast 12 - the B, A, and N stand for Bishop, Arrow, and Ninja. Interestingly I originally termed the Nsexton a Mule myself until I decided to substitute something more suitable for extrapolation - to Uelf for a Camel analogue, Lfencer for a Zebra one, et cetera (U being for Underscore and L fr Lecturer).

The promoted Hirelings are essentially Fwazirs (F for Ferz) without the backward step. The plain Wazir with no backward step I term a Superpoint, but that will clearly not do for a different piece. Perhaps it should be considered a Super- verion of a notional Cpoint (C for Cross), and so termed a Supercpoint.

The piece at the centre of the end ranks is essentially a royally-restricted version of the compound of the Wazir and Fwazir, and the promoted Lieutenant the compound of Superpoint and Supercpoint. This hints at the possibility of other compounds such as Rook+Brook, Cannon+Acannon, and Knight+Nsexton - alongside the Baron (Ferz+Viceroy) and Elk (Elephant+Eunuch). Any ideas about a naming pattern for these pieces?

The names Battering ram, Firework, Hireling and Mule are not currently in Man and Beast, but Ram on its own is Horn+Point, the forward form of he Besieger, in Man and Beast 01 and Fire- as a prefix indicates the direction of Man and Beast 10's Firegeneral, which is Rumbaba+Heir. Lieutenant I use for Sexton+Lecturer in Man and Beast 05.


Charles Gilman wrote on Thu, Jan 2, 2014 07:00 AM UTC:
Returning to the Octagonal analogue to the Mao, it occurs to me that there are so many possibilities for two successive "outward" moves that there should be a general term. With Gryphon being the oldest example of a two-stage piece and my extrapolations including the Fury, Gorgon, Harpy, Hydra, Lamia, Manticore, Simurgh, and Sphinx I wondered about the first and second stage hyphenated (as with hunter and sniper) followed by monster. Thus the Gryphon would be a Ferz-Rook monster, the Simurgh a Viceroy-Rook monster, and the Contragryphon a Rook-Ferz monster. To give examples with a non-monster name the Anchorite would be a Wazir-Bishop monster and the Farrier a Wazir-Unicorn monster. The compound of two monsters with the same first stage would be thar stage's monster with the compound of the second stages and vice versa, making the Ostler a Wazir-Governor monster and the Rooksheath a Baron-Rook monster. Daniil Frolov's piece is the compound of a Wazir-Knight monster and Ferz-Knight monster, and so a Prince-Knight monster. What would however need a formal definition is exactly what "outward" means.

The best that I can devise is that at the turning point it might go through a radial but not bounce off one. Here are some examples on the FIDE board: Valid Prince-Knight Monster moves include a1-a2-b4, going through the a2-b1 and a2-g8 diagonals; a1-b1-d2, going through the a2-b1 and b1-h7 diagonals; and a1-b2-c4 and a1-b2-d3, both going through rank 2 and file b. They do not include a1-a2-c3, as it bounces off the a2-g8 diagonal; a1-b1-c3, as it bounces off the b1-h7 diagonal; a1-b2-a4, as it bounces off file b; or a1-b2-d1, as it bounces off rank 2. Does this seem a satisfactory and sufficiently rigorous definition?


Daniil Frolov wrote on Thu, Jan 2, 2014 11:11 AM UTC:
Have anybody ever noticed that cannon (in some sense) is also some kind of
piece, wich starts move as one, and continues as another?
True rider of grasshoper's move would make several hops over several
pieces in same direction, while cannon starts as grasshoper (orthogonal, in
case of cassic cannon) and continue as rook.

Charles Gilman wrote on Sat, Jan 4, 2014 07:30 AM UTC:
Yes, I suppose my definition of "outward" would include continuing in the same direction, so what you say does apply to Cannons with he folowing two caveats:

(1) The Korean Cannon can also make an orthognal Grasshopper move without a Rook move following it, whereas the Mao cannot make a Wazir step without then making a Ferz step and so its octagonal analogue cannot make a Wazir or Ferz step without then making a Knight leap. Another way to look at the Korean Cannon is that it makes an orthogonal Cntragrasshopper move preceded by an optional Rook move.

(2) The Chinese Cannon is something more complicated, a divergent piece that can make a noncapturing move only as a Rook but a capturing one only as a Korean Cannon.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Jan 4, 2014 09:33 AM UTC:
> Have anybody ever noticed that cannon (in some sense) is also some kind
of piece, wich starts move as one, and continues as another?

Fairy-Max implements all its pieces this way: they always have a primary
and a secondary move, and on pieces that don't need that, these two are
simply taken the same. Primary moves kan be marked as 'hopping', in which
case the transition to the secondary phase takes place when it lands on an
obstacle with its primary move. Otherwise the transition to the secondary
phase is spontaneous, and can be configured to occur with a delay, i.e.
after making a specified number of steps of the primary move. This to
implement limited-range sliders, which first make a number of slider steps,
before reverting to a leaper for the final step.

In general all 'move rights' can change in the transition; not only the
'rider' right that allows repeating the step (if not blocked), but also
capture and non-capture rights. So a Cannon is defined as a hopper with a
Wazir step and rider rights, with primary non-capture and secondary capture
rights.

A difference with the interpretation given below is that in the Fairy-Max
description the transition takes place when the hopper is on the platform
square, not just behind it (Grasshopper) or before it (Contragrasshopper).
So the Grasshopper itself is in fact considered a transition piece, which
loses its rider rights in the transition, but gains capture + non-capture
rights, which it didn't have before.

Where exactly the transition takes place would only be noticeable if the
direction (actually board step) would differ between primary and secondary
step. A Mao is indeed implemented as a primary Wazir without rights and a
secondary Ferz with capture + non-capture rights, the transition taking
place spontaneously after the first Wazir step. Hoppers that alter
direction would be bifurcators.

The extension of Betza notation I proposed also uses 'chaining' of
different, independently specified phases, where the number of phases is
not limited to two (as it is in Fairy-Max). As there is also a notation
there for "indefinite repetition" of a phase, it would be possible to
define "multi-hoppers", like the mentioned Grasshopper-rider.

Charles Gilman wrote on Mon, Jan 6, 2014 06:47 AM UTC:
It occurred to me to think about the distinction between the compound of two monsters (to continue my proposed usage) and the monster of two compounds. The compound of the Cannon and Arrow is a familiar enough piece, but the full Grasshopper-Queen monster is a distinct piece which can also turn 45° on the cell after the Hopped piece. The Queen-Contragrasshopper monster is yet another piece, which cannot make that turning but can make one on the cell before the Hopped piece.

Charles Gilman wrote on Thu, Apr 17, 2014 05:55 AM UTC:
For the last year or so I have been catching most episodes of B.B.C. Radio 4's Tweet of the Day, a series of two-minute programmes each about a bird found in Britain and its sonhgs. For this reason bird nasmes have been on my mind and I have come up with three possible bird-based names for pieces. They are Curlew for Albatranker+Curatfiler, Oxpecker for Bitteranker+Oxfiler, and Nuthatch for Rook+Kangaroo. The first two combine the birdiness of the -ranker component with similarity in name to the -filer one, while the last is from the idea of transforming the Squirrel's Dabbaba component - henec the refernce to nuts - from proto-Rook to modern Rook - which is of course itself a bird name.

There are other pieces complementing these, and I have gone for non-board names for these. For Oxranker+Bittefiler I suggest the long-unused Ibex, and for Curatranker+Albatfiler Almoner, meaning a giver of charity often for religious motives. I am not sure about Bishop+Carpenter. i wondered about Nutter, a slang term for a mad person, in reference to the Bishop as Fool, but wondered whether some people might consider this an offensive piece name. If anyone can suggest something better, ideally connected with squirrels in some way (it tansforms the Squirrel's Elephant component from proto-Bishop to modern Bishop) for this piece I would be grateful.


Charles Gilman wrote on Sat, Apr 19, 2014 07:07 AM UTC:
By "non-board names" I of course meant non-bird names, sorry for any confusion. It occurs to me that another two pieces in the Almoner-Curlew-Ibex-Oxpecker group would be the six-direction pieces Quibbranker+Antelfiler and Antelranker+Quibbfiler. An obvious name for the former would be Antagonist, but I am stuck for an Antelope-like beast starting with Q. Any ideas, anyone?

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