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The Game of Nemoroth. For the sake of your sanity, do not read this variant! (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Peter Aronson wrote on Wed, Apr 24, 2002 03:03 PM UTC:
Gnohmon, 'When the Night Winds Howl' wasn't a rational selection to match Nemoroth, but rather an association made somewhere in the depths of my subconscious. And the instrumental component would work well enough.

gnohmon wrote on Wed, Apr 24, 2002 03:27 PM UTC:
Speaking of disneyfied images moving on a screen, 'Pennies from Heaven',
Columbia Pictures 1936, ''A romantic comedy starring Bing Crosby which
features Louis Armstrong and his Orchestra in a nightclub sequence
performing 'Skeleton in the Closet'...
(www.loc.gov/rr/mopic/jazz/o-r.html)

You never heard such unearthly laughter, such hilarious moans, when the
skeleton in the closet rattled his bones (from memory)

When the skeleton in the closet started to dance makes a far less
appropriate song for Nemoroth than the gosts' high noon.

There is always that violin valse macabre that the classical radio stations
play on Halloween...

John Lawson wrote on Wed, Apr 24, 2002 04:59 PM UTC:
Do you mean 'Danse Macabre', by Saint-Saens? There's also something like that I can't quite remember in his 'Carnival of the Animals'.

gnohmon wrote on Thu, Apr 25, 2002 01:26 AM UTC:
> Do you mean 'Danse Macabre' ...

Perhaps. It's the one that goes da DAAA da Daaaa da daaa da daaa da
dadadadadadadun dun dun, right?

John Lawson wrote on Thu, Apr 25, 2002 01:44 AM UTC:
Yes, that's it!

John Lawson wrote on Thu, Apr 25, 2002 01:46 AM UTC:
Actually, it's here.
http://fathom.org/opalcat/midi.html

John Lawson wrote on Thu, Apr 25, 2002 05:09 AM UTC:
This is the other Saint-Saens piece I was thinking of.  It is Carnival of
the Animals, Fossils.  The link takes you directly to the midi file.
http://www.geocities.com/lavendermist_lmg/midis/Classical/fossili.mid

Moussambani wrote on Fri, Apr 26, 2002 09:26 AM UTC:
OK, who of you asked for the wrong furniture?

PS: If you don't know what I'm talking about, then it's not you.

Moussambani wrote on Thu, May 9, 2002 06:55 AM UTC:
There's a well-known old philosophical problem that states: 'If a Go Away
screams on the middle of a board, and there's no one near to hear it, does
it count as a valid move?'

Well, The question here is if one could 'pass' by making an isolated Go
Away scream. On first thought, I said that this was not legal because it
would be a repetition, but it's not true because now the other player is on
move. Additionally, if some ichor is on the board it evaporates if only
partially, so even the board changes, not only the player on move.

This of course doesn't save anybody, so it's legal only if you have no
compelled pieces (unless you use evaporation as a saving move). But should
it be allowed? Why would someone do that is beyond my range, but maybe some
day a situation will arise in that this is desirable. So, is it legal?

gnohmon wrote on Sat, May 11, 2002 01:26 AM UTC:
1. Please transfer the official rules page to chessvariants.com.

2. If a Go Away screams in the middle of a desert and nobody hears it, has
it screamed at all? The answer, in the Game of Nemoroth, is 'No!'. 

3. I lost the email with the clever Nemoroth notation, and the clever
diagrams that can give all the info. Why isn't it a page yet?

4. I have uploaded a file with a sample game that I saw in a dream of
Nemoroth. I have editied it less than I should for the same reason that I
have been out of touch for awhile -- I foolishly reinstalled Alpha Centauri
on my computer.

5. An extensive discussion of the advantages and disadvantages of
moving the Ghast to f3 or f6 needs to be written. For a few hours I feared
that the manouevre provided an instawin.... but now I once again think it's
not a good idea.

Peter Aronson wrote on Sat, May 11, 2002 03:49 PM UTC:
There's a mistake here -- Ralph didn't want the previous page <strong>replaced</strong> by the rules page, he wanted it to reference it or be merged with it! I have a copy of the old page at work and will fix it on Monday, unless one of the other editors has a pre-modification copy. <p> Sorry Ralph!

Peter Aronson wrote on Sat, May 11, 2002 07:26 PM UTC:
OK, I've gotten ahold of the original page, and will attempt to merge them
this weekend.  John Lawson has also promised me the e-mail notation when he
has time from making his house unnaturally clean.

Peter Aronson wrote on Sun, May 12, 2002 12:10 AM UTC:
OK, the pages have been combined and uploaded.  Please send all complaints
to king-in-yellow@hastur.eldergods.org.

Moussambani wrote on Sat, Jun 29, 2002 03:05 PM UTC:
Do Alabaster cities gleam?

gnohmon wrote on Sun, Jun 30, 2002 03:30 AM UTC:
Alabaster cities gleam in the light of the sun; but in the ancient age when
the world was still under construction, there were alabaster cities,
construction towns, that existed before there was a Sun; and later, when
the Sun was periodically turned off for maintenance, no gleam. Without the
sun, Alabaster cities merely glimmer with a lambent ambient light.

Obsidian cities tend to glisten. In fact, obsidian is nothing but glass,
artificially produced, and though one often thinks of it as being colored
black, it can be light green or transparent, or many other colors. If
obsidian is merely glass, are not all modern cities obsidian? And does this
not tell you which side is winning?

John Lawson wrote on Sun, Jun 30, 2002 03:46 AM UTC:
Based on my slight playing experience with Nemoroth, and considering how many Humans were left unpetrified and unmummified at the end of the game (3 out of 16), I suspect that it matters not which side is winning, the Humans are toast either way.

Moussambani wrote on Thu, Oct 3, 2002 08:20 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
Well, I wanted to relive this game! let's see if I can manage to do it.

Has anyone tested it and can give the results? I'd also like to repeat
some early analysis I made but I made a typo on it, rendering it invalid.

*Case 1. Alabaster Human d3; Obsidian Ghast e4.
d3 is compelled to move. Out of his usually available five moves, only two
of them actually flee the Ghast. They are Hc3 or Hc4. This human is still
compelled to flee to the b file on the next move.

*Case 2. Alabaster Human d3, Ghast b3, Go Away e2; Obsidian Ghast e4.
now the human moves to the c files are illegal, since he would be
approaching his own Ghast. But there's a saving move: Ae2 [reminder: on my
notation, a Go Away scream is recorded as moving to his own square]. The
scream pushes the Human to c4. The Human is still compelled, but now Hb5
(fleeing both Ghasts) is legal.

*Case 3. Alabaster Go Away a2, Human a3; Obsidian Ghast d4; Ichor on a3
and a4.
Now it gets tricky. Is screaming legal? [My thought: It was compelled to
move off of an ichorous square, and he did so. He is now compelled to move
off of a *different* Ichorous square.] Well, Is it valid?

*Case 4. Alabaster Go Away a2, Human a3; Obsidian Ghast d4; Mummy a3.
Well, This is even trickier. Now the Human can go to a4 on his own, but is
screaming valid? [Rationale: I think it should be to be consistent with
case 3, ie this is another multiple occupancy square.]

And now for something completely different. My thoughts on the pieces.

Basilisk: This is powerful, but using his ability also reduces his
mobility.  So it needs to be careful to not to petrify many pieces at once
or it can get in trouble. Grade: B

Ghast: The compelling thing is great, This piece can be deadly if placed
correctly. There is a nice balancing act, though. This piece is
thrice-colorbound. But it seems hard to stop nonetheless. Grade: B+

Go Away: This is a killer. Albeit colorbound, this piece can create lots
of trouble. If you push your opponent's Go Away orthogonally, he has now
both Go Aways on the same color. Severe Balancing Act: It's the only piece
that stops working when petrified. A petrified Go Away could as well be a
petrified Human. Still... Grade: A

Leaf Pile: Simple and Deadly. But it's slow. Still, be careful of where
your opponent places his Leaf Piles. Grade: A-

Wounded Fiend: Being a rider is such a disadvantage in this game. No, he
can't run through a Ghast range to the other side, he can't cross a
basilisk gaze... But he can block squares for a limited time... (If we put
the poor Alabaster Human of the cases before on d3, and the Obsidian Ghast
at e4, but now we add an Obsidian Wounded Fiend at b5, after 1. Hc3(4)
1... Wb2++ wins by stalemating the Human, trapped in between ichor and a
Ghast.) Grade: C+

Human: No wonder there are so many, otherwise you blink and you miss them:
This poor guys have no power and suffer all sort of troubles. You can make
Zombies out of them, but that's so hard... Grade: D

Zombie: Now this guy has power! If he can keep away from Ichor, they are
quite a force to reckon with. Grade: A+

Statues: Several kind of statues, and (almost) all of them still useful in
a way or another. Still they are immobile... Grade: no way I can give a
single grade, they're so different.

Mummy: OK, an immobile piece with no power whatsoever, and if you want to
use them to block it will need lots of strategy. This is a no-brainer.
Grade: F

Disclaimer: I haven't played Nemoroth, so all this is out of thinking, not
actual experience.

Finally, I'd like to ask who of you asked for the wrong furniture...

-- 

Moussambani, who never has been in Mine's End and never completed Sokoban.
The Quest? Maybe some year in the 2030s...

Chuck wrote on Fri, Aug 8, 2003 07:28 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
One question about ichorous squares.  In the discussion of ichorous
squares, it states:

'If pushed onto an ichorous square, a mobile piece other than Zombie is
compelled to move off. Exception: if the ichor will evaporate after you
make your move but before your opponent moves, you can ignore it.'

Does this mean:
a) a piece on a ichorous square, where the last bit of ichor will
evaporate immediately following the player's move, is not compelled to
move?  OR
b) a piece on a ichorous square, where the last bit of ichor will
evaporate immediately following the player's move, is compelled to move,
but the evaporation of the last bit of ichor constitutes a saving move?

It makes a difference if the player has another piece is compelled for
some other reason.  If (a) is the case, he must move the other piece, or
make a saving move for the compulsion on that other piece, since that is
his only compulsion.  If (b), he can make any legal move, since the
evaporation of the ichor is a saving move for an existing compulsion.

Moussambani wrote on Mon, Aug 11, 2003 01:03 AM UTC:
My interpretation is for rules simplicity. The rules state:

a) A piece on an ichorous square IS compelled to move.

b) Ichor evaporation counts as a saving move.

So I'd say that, even if you have more compelled pieces, any legal move
can be done.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on Sun, Aug 31, 2003 11:15 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
Insane?. May be, but as my first impression, I think that this game is playable. It is a good candidate to be in the PBM system, and it is possible that there are candidates to play a well-thought test game of Nemoroth. Perhaps, I am one of them.

John Lawson wrote on Mon, Sep 1, 2003 03:20 AM UTC:
Roberto,

I have the scores of two medium-decent games played by Ben Good and me. 
If you'd like to see them, drop me a private email.

The major notational problem is ichor.

Paul Townsend wrote on Sun, Oct 19, 2003 07:10 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
Don't like the name 'Go Away' since it seems out of character with the ghoulish names of the other pieces. I set me down to think, and came up with the alternative name 'Banshee' with, of course, its special 'move' redesignated a 'wail'.

David Short wrote on Sun, Oct 26, 2003 03:43 AM UTC:
Compared to THE GAME OF NEMOROTH, my game EXISTENTIALIST CHESS
is very easy to understand!!

Paul Townsend wrote on Sun, Oct 26, 2003 08:42 PM UTC:
We *must* have a petrified Human transmogrified into a Zombie on being
pushed to the far side. Otherwise there is no use for a petrified Human,
he may as well be a Mummy.
(What power/function/influence does a petrified Go-Away have?)

John Lawson wrote on Mon, Oct 27, 2003 05:51 PM UTC:
From the rules:
'The Go Away can be petrified, and a petrified Go Away is mute.'
So a petrified Go Away is just another piece of impedimenta on the board,
and its scream is a resource that is no longer avalable.

As for petrified Humans promoting to Zombies anyway, that might be
interesting to try out.  In my limited (four games) experience, even
petrified Humans got nowhere near the far rank.  One's tempi were better
used elsewhere, specifically in maneuvering the Basilisk, Ghast, and Go
Away.

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