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Wildeursaian Qi. Variant on 10 by 10 board combining ideas of several existing variants. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
πŸ•ΈFergus Duniho wrote on Thu, Feb 24, 2005 12:33 PM EST:
Contrary to what this page says, Eurasian Chess has not inherited anything from Grander Chess. If there is any similarity between these two games, it is because of a common similarity with Grand Chess, which influenced the design of both games. Grander Chess was not an influence on Eurasian Chess, because I never gave it any thought when designing Eurasian Chess.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on Thu, Feb 24, 2005 04:10 PM EST:Good β˜…β˜…β˜…β˜…
Looks interesting, but King is e1, Gnu in f2 seems to be a better initial setup.

Moisés Solé wrote on Thu, Feb 24, 2005 09:37 PM EST:
There's no such threat. The Gnu is a compound, and thus it's stopped by the river.

Charles Gilman wrote on Fri, Feb 25, 2005 04:37 AM EST:
Thanks to everyone who has commented on this. 'Inherits from Grander Chess' should indeed be 'shares with Grander Chess'. It was an incomplete correction of 'inherits from Grand Chess', as Grand Chess does not have the Queen centralised but Grander Chess does. I notice that I have also managed to miss 'whether capturing or not' from the 'Korean-style' subvariant. The (as it turns out non-existent) smothered mate threat is, I suspect, reminiscent of Ecumenical Chess (hyperlink from Castling here).

Jeremy Good wrote on Mon, Feb 27, 2006 06:25 AM EST:Excellent β˜…β˜…β˜…β˜…β˜…
The author states that this variant is an homage to other variants. It does itself and them credit. It is not a bad knockoff, but an homage, as it claims to be, and a good variant, in my opinion, very enjoyable.

πŸ•ΈFergus Duniho wrote on Mon, Feb 27, 2006 11:56 PM EST:
Jeremy, I did a search on the word homage on this page and all the comments on it, and the only instances were in your comment. So it seems that the author has not stated that this game is a homage to other variants. Also, in my comments on the 'Grand Chess 2' page, I did not call this game a knock off of Eurasian Chess. It is different enough that it is not a knock off. But it does seem to be a bad game. In particular, the rule against compound pieces crossing the river would seem to strengthen defense and weaken offense, making this game very drawish.

Anonymous wrote on Tue, Feb 28, 2006 08:29 AM EST:
True, the author doesn't say 'homage' but his prominent references to the variants out of which this game emerged makes it clear that this is his intent. In the presentation of this variant, the author demonstrates respect and affection for those variants which inspired it and that is what an homage is. The prohibition against compound pieces crossing the river is perhaps its most original facet and helps to ensure that more powerful pieces are not overly dominant, fostering a greater balance between offense and defense.

Joost Brugh wrote on Tue, Feb 28, 2006 11:50 AM EST:Good β˜…β˜…β˜…β˜…
The point Fergus is making is that strong pieces are confined to their own half of the board. Both players can avoid these pieces simply by keeping their Kings on their own halfs of the board. This doesn't really restrict the Kings' mobility. A way to get a draw in a bad position is trading all compound pieces for attacking non-compound pieces, sit back and see that the enemy compound pieces can't do anything against your King. I still think that the game is a harmonic combination of games on these pages making it a good game for a contest celebrating 10 years of Chess Variant Pages.

πŸ•ΈFergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Feb 28, 2006 05:14 PM EST:
Joost Brugh has the right idea, but it is really worse than he describes. Suppose I am playing this game in a tournament with someone I know is a superior player. The rules are such that I can choose to play for a draw and easily get one. All I have to do is keep all my pieces on my own side of the river, exchange pieces for any he sends over to attack my King, and finally have a draw when he runs out of pieces that can attack my King. You see, the pieces available for offense can also be used for defense. When a player chooses to use all his pieces for defense, there isn't much his opponent can do, since he has fewer pieces available for offense, and worst of all, his strongest pieces aren't available for offense. Although Xiang Qi, upon which Anglis Qi, the game from which this rule comes is based, also has pieces devoted to defense, they are the weakest pieces in the game, and the Pawns are unable to mount the same kind of defense Pawns can in Chess. Thus, Xiang Qi is much better balanced between offense and defense. This game is tipped too much in favor of defense.

Charles Gilman wrote on Thu, Mar 2, 2006 02:53 AM EST:
One point about this variant is the total strength of the array. The
simple
pieces have all the moves of the compound ones twice over. The key could
be
to think of the usual goal of capturing enemy pieces quicker than they
capture yours into gaining offensive advantage by capturing simple pieces
while preserving ones own compound ones and gaining defensive advantage
by
the reverse. The FIDE thought proces is often interms of exchanging
pieces
of the same type. The question here might be in terms of thinking in
terms
mainly of evaluating a compound piece against a number of simple ones
(typically three given the restraints to compounds?).
	All the same I can see that a subvariant in which compound pieces can
indeed cross the River in some limited way would be less divegent from
FIDE Chess and might go down well. A thought occurred to me to allow
crossing orthogonally forward and diagonally backward, or in the Gnu's
case Knightwise forward and Camelwise backward. Within each half of the
board they would be unrestricted, as would promotion on both end ranks. I
could envisage a similar subvariant of Anglis Qi itself, and also of
Alibaba Qi
(http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSdualdirectionv),
an all-compound varaiant whose basic form allows crossing orthogonally or
Knightwise but not diagonally or Camelwise. Perhaps as all three vasic
variants end in Qi the subvariants should substitute some other Chinese
word conveying the divergent crossing. This might be better than the
other
alternative, prefixing with some attributive word resulting in long names
-
as well as being in keeping with the existing Anglis and Wildeurasian
indexing. Suggestions are welcome.

Charles Gilman wrote on Wed, Jun 7, 2006 03:08 AM EDT:

Since my last comment I have a posted a variant that relaxes River restrictions in a simpler fashion

It insists that the King and at least half the compound pieces of the same army remain on their own side of the River. This can make for a sudden need to withdraw if enough compounds pieces are captured. How does that sound as an option for Wildeurasian Qi itself?


Daniil Frolov wrote on Mon, Jun 28, 2010 07:06 AM EDT:
How about this: ompound pieces still cannot cross river, but can check (or 'capture king') through it?

Daniil Frolov wrote on Wed, Aug 18, 2010 06:30 AM EDT:
Another one variant: instead promoting to weak wazirs, pawns promotes to queens, gnus and tanks, wich also cannot cross river (cannot rettreat).

πŸ’‘πŸ“Charles Gilman wrote on Sat, Aug 21, 2010 02:14 AM EDT:
You did read about Wazirs being further promotable on reaching an end rank, didn't you?

H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Mar 26 06:25 AM EDT:Poor β˜…

I could use some advice on editorial policy for this one:

When a variant is unplayably poor, such as this one (due to the problems already spotted by Fergus), should we then still equip it with an Interactive Diagram that plays according to these flawed rules?


Aurelian Florea wrote on Wed, Mar 26 06:48 AM EDT in reply to H. G. Muller from 06:25 AM:

Bad variants don't deserve an ID. They would be a waste of time. And this game is needlessly complicated. This coming from someone who likes steppe learning curve games.


Aurelian Florea wrote on Wed, Mar 26 09:45 AM EDT in reply to Aurelian Florea from 06:48 AM:

I have reread the rules of the game and now they seem understantable. Still an unplayable game does not deserve a ID.


Aurelian Florea wrote on Wed, Mar 26 10:15 AM EDT:

As a layman on this website I'm not sure how much my opinion weights, but we the people of the simple inventors, should maybe have a saying too. The principles stated by Fergus here: https://www.chessvariants.com/opinions.dir/fergus/design.html , should be softly employed by all inventors. Sure one can make a more lengthy game which is a bit tedious, some of us, me included, have done that, but what is sacrificed in time should be gained in enjoyment. I'm not saying games should be marginalized or outright rejected out of the bat just for being a bit over the top, there would be plenty of cases where editors won't be able to easilly tell if a game is good. But some hurdles need to be applied. I'm saying this because I see a good few new games a week and they don't seem to add to anythink. I've done that too with ENEP. It was my first, and just a whim in a evening. The inventors should show that their game is thought through at least a bit. Sorry for my ranting but I think I have a point.

PS I have myself have deleted a submission of mine a while ago. I think it was called ultra grand cavalier chess. I do not know about it's playability, but it was meant to be part of a series where a take some games and make them bigger, many times as a homage to the inventor of the initial game. I figured out I cannot invest the time in such a project because it is too hard for me to desing the variants I am designing, with all I want for them like having a PC program that plays them. My point is that inventing chess variants should be at least somewhat difficult as otherwise we will get mostly plain games. Any of us can invent tommorow 24 games, and not necessarilly of the bad kind. I have done that with my Frog/Hannibal/Waffle chess with Gryphon/Manticore and falcon. But I am not sure about the meaning of those games. My personal opinion is that an accepted game should exibit an whatever would be a interesting coeficient of around 80% of my above mentioned games.


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