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Comments by MatsWinther
I can't test this because it's hard to discern what piece it is. Please improve the graphics, making the board and pieces bigger.
Andreas, thanks for the example that shows that the Mastodon is a very dangerous piece. I've come up with yet another variant featuring the Mastodon (Mammoth), namely
Mammoth Chess (8x10) (zrf). I think this drop-chess theme with pawn relocation is very promising. It could be used in more games. I also tried it with Capablanca's notions of pieces and board size, and christened it Scandinavian Chess (zrf).
Mats
Mats
Shashi, of course, everybody is aware that the first game of chess was played in India. Murray says that Chaturanga is at least older than Alexander the Great (356-323 B.C.) because, after Alexander's invasion, the Chariot was henceforth removed as a branch of the fighting services, due to its lack of efficiency against Alexander. This would have been reflected in Chaturanga had it been younger. But Chaturanga does not refer to four army corps, but to the four branches of the fighting services (not counting king and fers). So 4-handed Chaturanga is not the original as some would have it, says Murray (I've earlier implemented this curious game with dice, here (zrf).
Can you substantiate the claim that Chaturanga is at least from 3172 BC?
Mats
Can you substantiate the claim that Chaturanga is at least from 3172 BC?
Mats
Michael, please give a concise account of 'Betza's Atomic Theory'. I've read Scharnagl's papers on piece value, and one can immediately see in this attempt, and others, that the result is not wholly correct. Had the bishop's value exceeded the knight's value to this extent, then exchanging a bishop against a knight would lead to minor advantage. But practice has shown that bishops and knights have equal value. However, as the player can sometimes steer the game into positions where the bishop is stronger, it is often a good strategy to defer exchange. If the Mammoth (Mastodon) is very strong due to its manœuvrability then a paradox ensues. It cannot manœuvre because it's so valuable and must fall back before the lighter pieces. This means that it's not so strong after all. Unlike a Rook it cannot threathen at a distance. It must go forward to make threaths, and this means that it exposes itself to threaths. Moreover, the Mammoth is not only vulnerable at a short distance, it's also easily exposed to threaths from long distance, by all other pieces except the king. That is, other pieces can easily threathen the Mammoth without being threathened themselves. It seems like the 'vulnerability factor' is high with the Mammoth (is 'vulnerability' included when determining piece value mathematically?). It is also a slow piece. It takes four moves to move it across a big board. I don't believe it compares to a Cardinal (Archbishop, B+N) in strength. The latter is faster and much less vulnerable. Intuitively, I would say that the Mammoth compares to the value of a Rook. Mats
Reinhard, the Mammoth *jumps* two squares. This significantly increases its strength and makes it such an interesting and valuable piece on the big board. The problem of knight and bishop also has to do with the fact that their values are so flexible. A centrally positioned knight in the middlegame, on a square which cannot be threathened by a pawn, acquires the value of a rook. In the endgame, when pawns are located only at one wing, the knight is often more valuable than the bishop, sometimes winning the game, despite equal material. However, the cooperation of two bishops can increase the value of a bishop considerably. The derivation of piece value seems to be a complicated science. If we use Taylor's notion that the value of a chess piece is proportional to its ability to safely check an enemy king on another otherwise vacant board, then the Mammoth is less valuable than a rook, since the rook can give check from many more squares. It seems that this piece has great strengths and great weaknesses. Mats
Are you sure that you got this right? The Mammoth (Mastodon) *jumps* one or two steps diagonally or orthogonally. It cannot be as valuable as 6.8. Those evaluation systems don't work because they don't take into account how pieces *relate* to each other. Nor does the simple counting of squares work, i.e., its factual power, because it doesn't take into account that the Mammoth has to flee to every threat and cannot strike back. For instance, if a rook is threatened by a queen it can strike back on the orthogonals. The Archbishop can strike back against a threatening bishop, queen, or knight, but a Mammoth must generally back off before any threat. I argue that the Archbishop must be clearly more valuable than the Mammoth. The Mammoth seems ideal for testing the reliability of evaluation systems.
I have investigated the theoretical endgame properties of the Mammoth and it proved to be significantly stronger than the Rook in this area. (1) M + K vs. Q + K = draw (2) M + K vs. R + K = draw (3) M + K vs. B + K = win (4) M + K vs. N + K = win Comparatively, a Rook + King cannot win against neither Bishop nor Knight, in the general case. This implies that the Mammoth is stronger in theoretical endgames. Moreover, Rook + King generally loses against Queen + King, but the Mammoth draws against Queen. Also, in a theoretical endgame, a Mammoth is well suited for escorting a passed pawn to the promotion square. Bishop, Knight, or Rook, cannot achieve this. So it is stronger than a Rook. I contend that it compares to Rook + Pawn, i.e. 6. But I refuse to believe that it's as strong as an Archbishop (6.8).
It's not only a matter of technique to study theoretical endgames. Although considerations
of theoretical endgames are of tactical nature they are important also from a strategical
perspective because the capabilities of the pieces create certain motives that are quite
important, and sometimes surface already in opening and middlegame. An obvious example
is the sacrifice of the light piece on the opponent's remaining pawn(s). Although the
opponent has a Bishop or Knight against a lonely King, this is not enough for win. Such
factors affect the whole game, from the beginning. The fact that the Rook cannot win
against light piece in the ending, is underlying the common motif of the positional sacrifice
of a Rook against Knight or Bishop in the middlegame. Tigran Petrosian
often used this idea. These sacrifices bring no tactical advantage, but are strictly
positional.
(I have now improved the opening play in my Mastodon Chess (8x10))
(I have now improved the opening play in my Mastodon Chess (8x10))
I made a test where I put an Archbishop + King versus Mammoth + King on an otherwise empty board in Zillions. On an 8x8 board Zillions evaluates Archbishop and Mammoth as equal. But on an 8x10 board Zillions evaluates the Archbishop as significantly stronger than the Mammoth (so that the smiley looks unhappy when making the Mammoth move). On a 10x10 board the difference increases yet more in the Archbishop's favour, but not that much. So Zillions thinks that the Mammoth has about the value of an Archbishop on an *empty* 8x8 board, but this evaluation changes when the board is bigger. This corroborates what has been said recently, although I'm unable to interpret Zillions' numbers.
Has somebody managed to get SMIRF to function under Win98SE? It runs, but plays like a fool, and one cannot change time-setting. I've deinstalled, removed old ini-files, an reinstalled. But it doesn't work. Mats
at a certain point with large boards and many pieces, a variant should
probably have multiple moves per side at a time, instead of 1 move per
side...(Andy)
Double-move variants might be quite functional, at least if the double-move is constituted by a pawn move followed by a piece move. I've implemented this on an 8x8 board with regular pieces. This idea should be applicable on big boards, and with other pieces, too. There exist two variants of Twinmove Chess (zrf). In one variant pawn moves are compelled, until there exist no more pawn moves, when the pieces can continue moving without being preceded by a pawn move. In the other variant the player may abstain from the pawn move, and instead move a piece, but then he has lost his double-move.
Incidentally, I am amazed how relatively easy it is to create fully practicable chess variants. I didn't know this before. This occupation can be viewed almost as an art form. I now better understand why there exist chess variant societies, chess variant journals, and this very site. Actually, it reminds me of medieval alchemy, an activity that mixed rational 'scientific' content with imaginative creations. It is something about this mixture which is quite compelling. -- Mats
Double-move variants might be quite functional, at least if the double-move is constituted by a pawn move followed by a piece move. I've implemented this on an 8x8 board with regular pieces. This idea should be applicable on big boards, and with other pieces, too. There exist two variants of Twinmove Chess (zrf). In one variant pawn moves are compelled, until there exist no more pawn moves, when the pieces can continue moving without being preceded by a pawn move. In the other variant the player may abstain from the pawn move, and instead move a piece, but then he has lost his double-move.
Incidentally, I am amazed how relatively easy it is to create fully practicable chess variants. I didn't know this before. This occupation can be viewed almost as an art form. I now better understand why there exist chess variant societies, chess variant journals, and this very site. Actually, it reminds me of medieval alchemy, an activity that mixed rational 'scientific' content with imaginative creations. It is something about this mixture which is quite compelling. -- Mats
(Just uploaded a little improvement on my Twinmove Chess.)
Blindfold Chess is a time-honoured chess variant (the earliest mention of blindfold chess is from the seventh century) that is not represented on the Chess Variants pages(?). I have created a zrf downloadable here.
Be warned that, although many sources view it as a method of increasing one's playing strength, simultaneous blindfold exhibitions were officially banned in 1930 in the USSR as they could be injurious to health. To avoid chronic brain damage this program lets you view parts of, or the entire piece set, in the form of anonymous markers. Wikipedia has an article on Blindfold chess here. --Mats
Be warned that, although many sources view it as a method of increasing one's playing strength, simultaneous blindfold exhibitions were officially banned in 1930 in the USSR as they could be injurious to health. To avoid chronic brain damage this program lets you view parts of, or the entire piece set, in the form of anonymous markers. Wikipedia has an article on Blindfold chess here.
Jean-Louis,
I don't quite understand what you mean. The author actually gives the references:
Edward Falkener, Games Ancient and Oriental and How to Play Them, New York 1962.
John Gollon, Chess Variations, Vermont 1974.
Maung Maung Aye, Myanmar Traditional Chess, Yangon Oct. 1989 (in Myanmar language)
Another book on the subject is
Murray, HJR (1913). A History of Chess. Oxford: At the Clarendon Press.
Burmese Chess is very attractive. I would like to know more about the drop rule (which I implemented in my zrf) and how common that was. It seems like Burmese Chess was, in some quarters, played with standard setups.--Mats
I don't quite understand what you mean. The author actually gives the references:
Edward Falkener, Games Ancient and Oriental and How to Play Them, New York 1962.
John Gollon, Chess Variations, Vermont 1974.
Maung Maung Aye, Myanmar Traditional Chess, Yangon Oct. 1989 (in Myanmar language)
Another book on the subject is
Murray, HJR (1913). A History of Chess. Oxford: At the Clarendon Press.
Burmese Chess is very attractive. I would like to know more about the drop rule (which I implemented in my zrf) and how common that was. It seems like Burmese Chess was, in some quarters, played with standard setups.
Randompawns Chess (Chess 256) is a new take on the problem of creating a randomized initial position. The opening setup for the pawns is chosen randomly while satisfying the condition that the pawns must be either placed on the second or third rank. There are 256 possible configurations on the 8x8 board. All of them are sound and balanced, and fully playable. This implies a thourough kill of opening theory (except in one case of 256). Black's setup mirrors white's. In all other respects this game is the same as orthodox chess. The opening setup for the pieces on the first rank is the same as in orthodox chess. A zrf can be downloaded here. --Mats
Sam, for this game I investigated many initial positions, even non-mirrored. This was the only one I found that was good, I think. Why I didn't choose the 'natural' positions of bishops and knights had to do with the fact (if I recollect correctly) that the enemy mastodon would lose its natural development square on b3, b6, i3, i6. Also, the flank pawn would also be initially threathened by the bishop, which would be a hindrance to castling. It's possible that my 10x10 version of MastodonChess is better, at least more strategical. Thank you for the information on TamerSpiel. --Mats
This is a new(?) pawn that I call Scorpion and it has two extra, oblique, movement directions, but no extra captures. Luckily, 'pion' means just pawn in espanol. It works very fine. It makes the games more lively. I suppose it could be introduced to practically any chess variant, instead of the standard pawn. It's all yours!
Try it! I made a zrf that I call Scorpion chess, featuring this new dangerous pawn. --Mats
Try it! I made a zrf that I call Scorpion chess, featuring this new dangerous pawn.
I don't want to be a nag, but I urge you to evaluate this. Two Scorpion
pawns have the same value as a light piece. This contributes to the
stability of the positions, despite the increase in the tactical possibilities.
This new pawn could probably spice up many big-board variants, too.
Scorpion chess.
--Mats
Scorpion chess.
--Mats
Moreover, in Juell's Zillion's implementation I found the following errors in the setup: Setup B: black's pawn chain is 1 rank misplaced. Setup G: black's king should be on b16, not c16. --Mats
I have now added variants without die to my
Oblong Shatranj (chess).
The variants with die now play better. I hope that the setups are now correct according to Murray.
--Mats
The variants with die now play better. I hope that the setups are now correct according to Murray.
--Mats
Where is Casaux Chess? I can't find it when searching. --Mats
Dear JL, are you certain of these rules? Bodlaender says about Oblong chess (above link): 'Moving is not obligatory. In this variant, a win is achieved by taking the opponents king.' If win is achieved by king capture, then it must be allowable to move within check, and to let the king remain within check. In chess variants with die, the king capture rule is natural. Checkmate and check rules don't work properly. As to the promotion rules. I am not convinced that all Shatranj variants only promoted to fers. In four-handed Shatranj pawns promoted to Queens. In the still older 4-handed Chaturanga, pawns promoted to any piece, but depending on which square they promoted on. The ferz promotion rule is not universal. The reason why I believe that promotion was to any piece is because, in this dice game, it would be too hard to win otherwise. As to the bare king rule, I did not enforce this because it's so unlikely to happen. With promotion to rook, the king will be captured long before he is bare. But all rules don't need to be enforced. The player can decide himself that it's a win when the king is bare. --Mats
I have now introduced the Scorpion pawn to the following games. It clearly adds zest to the games.
Elephant Chess
Samhain Chess
Mammoth Chess
Mammoth Chess (8x10)
Scorpion Chess
A case in point is Elephant Chess, which was, perhaps, a little dull and drawish before. Now it's more lively.
--Mats
Elephant Chess
Samhain Chess
Mammoth Chess
Mammoth Chess (8x10)
Scorpion Chess
A case in point is Elephant Chess, which was, perhaps, a little dull and drawish before. Now it's more lively.
--Mats
There is no such 16 move rule. There is a 50 move rule, however, which says that a pawn must be moved within 50 moves, otherwise the game is declared a draw. --Mats
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