[ List Earliest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]
Ratings & Comments
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![BROKEN LINK!](/index/brokenlink.gif)
![Editor](/index/editor.gif)
<i>NOTE: the email address and phone number listed on the site appear to be non-responsive. It appears as if this company may be out of business. Anyone knowing any more information, please contact us.</i>
<p>--Editors.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
In the Chess Cards variant, it seems that it is indeed possible to
achieve the maximum score of 990 points. Suppose that player A is dealt
bQ rQ rR rB yQ yR yB wB wN wP and player B is dealt bR bB bN bP rN rP yN
yP wQ wR. First A plays two red cards, and B must counter with two red
cards; then A plays two yellow cards and B must counter with two yellow
cards; then if A plays the black Queen, having sacrificed the other five
cards, B will be able to play five of his other cards but will be mated
on the tenth move. B can never gain the initiative, so with best play
by A the maximum mate score will necessarily ensue
... unless B sacrifices a card. Then again, any time that A plays his
last card on move 5 and B is facing certain defeat, he can certainly
sacrifice some cards so that the maximum score cannot be achieved.
Still, my game above seems to come as close as possible to this result.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
'rarely seen as much chatter' -- it's a combination of two things, I think; first the story is pretty good. You must understand that after I wrote it, I also read it, and even I was affected by it. The idea of the ancient Lovecraftian city that existed before the world was finished being built kinda grabs me. And the details that make it real (by the way, the reason that Nemoroth was destroyed when Luna was floated up into the sky after being built in its harbor was that the project was given to the lowest bidder) -- well,when I wrote it, in the heat of the moment I thought it was merely corroborative detail intended to add artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative, but when I read it, it sounded so suspension-of-disbeliefable and I could picture the city and the harbor and the Moon and the little boats carrying pieces of craters to the work site, and golly gee gosh how amazing. The second thing is that the game itself is pretty interesting. Although I was so caught up in the story that I really did a bad job of describing the game, it's non-trivial and it's very different (in terms of how it feels to play it) than most chesslike or ultimalike games. This *will* cause chatter, even in the most silent of times. Since The Game of Nemoroth came out shortly after I had said strongly that there wasn't enough chatter, well, what would you expect. :-) 'values of Nemoroth pieces' -- quite impossible. Likewise Nemoroth with Different Armies. The various non-capture effects have values that are imho impossible to estimate numerically. The useful Go Away has a value that depends entirely on what it can push, just for one example. In practice, I think the Zombie is most valuable, and the second tier contains the Go Away, the Basilisk, and the Leaf Pile. The Leaf Pile is so easy to use; an advanced Basilisk, even if it gets petrified (but you gotta calculate if the foe can push a Leaf Pile onto it!) can be crippling, and the Go Away transforms positions completely. But even the humble Human is strong. Leaving one's Basilisk at home invites the Humand to advance and petrify themselves in blocking positions. The Ghast is so powerful that it is outside the range of values. However, I have not yet played a game against myself where I captured a Ghast, so in effect the Ghast is always neutralized by the enemy Ghast. Pushing a statue to d4 or d5 neutralizes the enemy Ghast and allows you to reposition from b6 to f6; this happened once and was very strong. All in all, I like the way the game works.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
'But crazyhouse is better' -- interesting comment. What you call Crazyhouse is, I think, the 'Double Bughouse chess' to which the mimeographed magazine 'New England Double Bughouse Chess' was devoted in the 1970s. (That's how people communicated then. Inconvenient, slow, and expensive compared to the internet, but would you believe it people communicated with each other even before there was an internet! What a mindblowing idea, no?) Funny thing is, your comment makes me think that the last time I played that game you hadn't been born yet. Stalling was a bad consequence of the rules as they were then; have they fixed this? If you say it's better, you should say why you think it's better. By providing reasons, you might get people to respond with counter arguments, and once in a while they would convince you you were wrong and once in a while you would convince them and most of the time you'd have fun arguing but you wouldn't get anywhere. Welcome to the internet. Does the game you call crazyhouse require 4 players? Did you know that in the 1970s I described how you could play it with 2 teams of 100 players?
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
Now that this comments page is up, I'd like to ask the regular readers of www.chessvariants.com to comment on Doublechess. Doublechess is the first chess variant which I invented, and I think it is my best one of all the ones I have created. It is my pride and joy. At the time I submitted it to this site I had learned that I was just a few months too late to enter it into the Large Variants contest that was being held at the time. What a pity! I feel that Doublechess would have been a very strong contender, but by the time I first learned of this site's existence, the deadline for submissions for the contest had passed. Doublechess' page on this site is unique in many ways. You won't find too many other games on this site which have sample games linked to it, and one of the games is annotated in detail. (The link to my 'Doublechess web site' is no longer valid.) Doublechess can be played by email on Richard's Play By Email server, and I frequently conduct Doublechess tournaments on PBM. The next one may be beginning in a few months and I will post an announcement about it here (as I did recently for the forthcoming Omegachess tournament which I will be running on PBM as well) when I am ready to begin it. Doublechess is a very simple variant. Simply lay two 8 by 8 chess boards side by side. Use two chess sets, and replace the second set of kings with a third set of queens. (if one does not have a third set of chess queen pieces handy, substitutes can be used until they are captured. Coins work well, for instance, a penny for a white queen and a nickel for a black queen.) Set up the first army of pieces in the traditional setup (RBNQKBRN) in files E to L and the second army out in the wings (RBNQ, QBNR) in files A to D and M to P. You will notice a few interesting strategic points about Doublechess. Opposing bishops start along the same diagonals as each other, often promting them to be quickly traded off if the opportunity presents itself. If they avoid an early exchange, bishops of like color can double themselves along the same diagonal to form a battery in much the same way that one might double their rooks along the same file in chess. Notice that whereas white begins with two dark squared bishops on the left side of the board, or queenside (in Doublechess terminology, the 'queenside' refers to files A to H, and 'kingside' refers to files I to P, mimicking the same sides of the boards which these terms refer to in regular chess), and black has two light squared bishops on the queenside. Likewise, white has two light squared bishops to start the game on the kingside, and black has two dark squared bishops on each side. Each side can try to exploit the other's weaknesses on light or dark squares on each half of the board. The way the board is set up, as players begin to develop their pieces and pawns, the pieces tend to engage each other on each half of the board in about the same amount of time as they do in regular chess. In the middle game it is often the case where pieces will be interacting with each other and threatening each other on each half of the board completely independent from what is going on on the other side of the board. In some ways then, Doublechess is like playing two games in one, though one really needs to look at the board as a whole to truly understand and appreciate the game. There are other strategic differences between Doublechess and regular chess which make my variant exciting and unique. It is more common to sacrifice material for attack in Doublechess than it is in regular chess, since one has so much material at one's disposal to attack with. In Doublechess then, obviously king safety becomes extremely important. Thus another axiom of dc is that it is quite possible to win despite a material disadvantage, more often than one can overcome such a deficit in regular chess. As long as one has enough pieces to launch an attack, they can make things interesting. I should also point out that the one rule that is unique and distinctive to Doublechess is the castling rule (see dc's page for full explanation of the castling rule), and the pros and cons of long castling vs. short castling can be long debated. It's another twist to the game which makes it interesting. One advantage that my variant has over other CVs is that it only uses orthodox pieces, so it is very easy to learn how to play. Perhaps more than any other CV, Doublechess has the 'feel' of regular chess. There is a ZRF file available for download at the bottom of Doublechess' page. I urge everyone who has not played it yet who owns ZILLIONS OF GAMES to download Doublechess and try it out. I welcome comments from everyone, pro or con, as to how they would rate Doublechess as a chess variant. What are this variants' strengths and weaknesses? Finally I would say that, although I realize I am very biased in the matter ;-) I feel that Doublechess is such an excellent variant that it deserves consideration as one of this site's 'Recognized Chess Variants' and as inventor of this game I am necessarily disqualified from nominating it to that position. Might someone else who has an equal appreciation for this game take up the gauntlet and nominate it along with an eloquent essay on my game's merits?
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
It would seem that I am not the first person to create a CV on an 11 by 11 board. (see my SPINAL TAP CHESS) It would be interesting to play a game of TERROR CHESS (for WHITE) vs. SPINAL TAP CHESS (for BLACK) as a game of Chess Between Different Armies !!! PETER ARONSON I challenge you to create a ZRF for such a game IMMEDIATELY!! :-) I could then challenge Brian Wong to a game by email! (if anyone has his address!) (mine is DavidNYJfan@hotmail.com) though I suspect that TERROR CHESS has the more powerful army! Then again who can say for sure? TERROR CHESS vs. SPINAL TAP CHESS A game of Chess Between Different Armies created by David Short with thanks to Brian Wong. a b c d e f g h i j k +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 11 |*R*|*S*|*W*|*V*|*Q*|*K*|*M*|*W*|*V*|*S*|*R*| 11 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 10 |*P*|*P*|*P*|*P*|*Cr|*Cr|*Cr|*P*|*P*|*P*|*P*| 10 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 9 | |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| | 9 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 8 |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| 8 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 7 | |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| | 7 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 6 |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| 6 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 5 | |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| | 5 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 4 |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| 4 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 3 | |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| | 3 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 2 |:P:| P |:P:| P |:P:| P |:P:| P |:P:| P |:P:| 2 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 1 | R |:B:| N |:C:| A |:K:| Q |:Mr| B |:N:| R | 1 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ a b c d e f g h i j k Diagram index: R- ROOK B- BISHOP N- KNIGHT C- CARDINAL A- AMAZON K- KING Q- QUEEN Mr- MARSHALL P- PAWN Cr- CRAB S- SQUIRE V- VICEROY W- WIZARD M- MINISTER Pawns move 1, 2, or 3 squares on their initial move and the en passant rule is the same as it is in OMEGACHESS. Each side may castle as its game's rules dictate.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
The knight is clearly stronger than the rook: in the center of a crowded board, it can control 16 squares,which is more than the rook on an empty board. The value of this knight should be close to that of the bishop, a bit less,I guess. The rook is therefore the only minor piece, and the most difficult to develop.Opening is hard stuff. I suppose it consists in opening files or diagonales to make quick and violent attacks by exchanging pawns, and making gambits (the pawn's relative value to other pieces is decreased compared to fide chess).
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
How about the Tripunch Terrors, another army to compete against the Fabulous FIDEs? :-) King and Pawns are standard. The rest of the pieces are from Tripunch Chess, but they flip as pieces do in Weakest Chess- these pieces have capturing and non-capturing modes, and can flip (as a move) from one to the other. To keep the pawn line defended, the Reapers and Combine start in capturing mode; the others start in non-capturing mode. If flipping pieces are half as strong as regular pieces (and that seems to be the estimate in the Weakest Chess article), then the Tripunch Terrors are about 4 Pawns too strong as described. So we remove the ability to move as a Bishop from the Harvesters and Combine... and then we should have a game. So here's the official lineup: the Flipping Reaper, the Flipping Nightrider, the Flipping Aanca, and the Flipping... the Flipping... Give me some time. I'll come up with a name for that last one. :-D
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
It would seem that TERROR CHESS is identical to THE SULTAN'S GAME http://www.chessvariants.com/large.dir/sultan.html with the exception that the positions of the marshall and cardinal are reversed. THE SULTAN'S GAME pre-dates TERROR CHESS on this web site by three years. Nevertheless I still propose that my idea above for a variant of chess between different armies would be intriguing. Oh and I would suggest variants with and alternately without the 'Battle Move' when programming the ZRF for the above proposed new variant. Players can decide for themselves which they prefer to use.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
''values of Nemoroth pieces' -- quite impossible.' --- I was just joking here. I actually can't imagine how one could assign values, considering all the interactions. In regular chess, the only interaction is capture. 'Likewise Nemoroth with Different Armies. The various non-capture effects have values that are imho impossible to estimate numerically.' --- True, but it is possible to imagine other interactions that might be interesting. Several spring to mind (nature abhors a vacuum) but they could be as simple as ichor with different effects. One could even handicap by allowing the ichor of each player to dissipate at different rates. 'The useful Go Away has a value that depends entirely on what it can push, just for one example.' --- A trivially true statement. Ceteris paribus, a Knight that can capture a Queen is worth more than one that can capture a Bishop. I consider values to be a statistical guide, not a received truth, fun as they may be to study and play with. (Of course, I stink as a chess player, so what's my opinion worth?) It is likely that I may soon be playing Nemoroth against another human via email. We will be sure to post our observations. As a sidebar, there is really no assurance that any entity with which one communicates via email alone is actually human. We could all be alien anthropologists, who, thinking we are studying humans, are studying each other. The resulting theses would be feces.
I am reviewing the document http://www.panix.com/~gnohmon/nemofull.html and I need to know if I have interpreted it correctly. Statements: [A Leaf Pile] can move onto a non-ichorous non-Ghast square which contains a Mummy and at least one other piece. When a Leaf Pile makes its first voluntary move after engulfing something, it leaves behind a single Mummy; notice that this means no Mummy is left behind when a Leaf Pile that is digesting something is pushed. Conclusion: If a Leaf Pile engulfs a multiple occupancy square including a Mummy, and then is pushed, there is no Mummy remaining on that square. Statement: If the ichor will evaporate after you make your move but before your opponent moves, you can ignore it. Conclusion: That ichor actually lasts nine plies, not five moves. There will be more questions.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
The Tripunch Terrors are a fine idea, whether or not they are balanced. For one thing, experience with them would refine my wild guess about the value of pieces that have to flip between movement and capture.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
1. Yes, the mummy has been engulfed. 2. 'ichor actually lasts nine plies' ---- hmmm. This relates to the specific case where a piece is compelled to move off. The ichor certainly lasts ten plies, so in this situation the ichor must have been created during your opponent's move. My thought was that since it will finish its evaporation at the end of your move, you can effectively satisfy the compulsion to move off by simply staying where you are; and at the end of your move the result is that you are no longer standing on icky ichor.
Wait, there's more. Statements: A Leaf Pile is subject to the effects of a Basilisk, and a petrified Leaf Pile cannot engulf anything. A petrified Leaf Pile can still engulf things that are pushed onto it, and it can still engulf things it is pushed onto. Conclusion: Second statement is true, and more fun. Corollary: A Go Away pushing a petrified Leaf Pile around can vacuum up all sorts of impedimenta. Statement: Any mobile piece except a Zombie within two squares of a Ghast must flee the Ghast, and no mobile piece except a Zombie may move of its own accord to a Ghast Square; the squares within the Ghast's range are called Ghast Squares. Clarification requested: If several pieces are under compulsion to flee a Ghast, but the Ghast moves off before the compulsions can all be satisfied, the compulsions no longer exist if the compelled pieces are no longer on Ghast squares. Additional statements: When you are under compulsion, you may make any move which removes the compulsion, but if you cannot satisfy the compulsion of at least one piece, you lose. The Human moves one square sideways, or one square straight forward, or one square diagonally forward, but only to an empty non-ichorous square. Hypothetical situation: Alabaster Human on f5, Obsidian Ghast moves to f6, creating compulsion for human to flee. Assume there is no other Alabaster piece under compulsion this move, and no saving move is possible. The Human can only move to e5, e6, g5, or g6. These squares are still adjacent to the Obsidian Ghast. Is this a win for Obsidian due to stalemate by compulsion?
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Lovecraftian/Chess related story: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Hangar/5176/misc/pirc01.htm
OK, now I'm going to try to clarify ichor: Alabaster Obsidian Wounded Fiend moves Move 1 Ichor deposited Ichor ply 2 Ichor ply 1 Move 2 Ichor ply 3 Ichor ply 4 Move 3 Ichor ply 5 Ichor ply 6 Move 4 Ichor ply 7 Ichor ply 8 Move 5 Ichor ply 9 Ichor ply 10 Obsidian pieces need not move off ichorated square OR Alabaster Obsidian Wounded Fiend moves Move 1 Ichor deposited Ichor ply 1 Move 2 Ichor ply 2 Ichor ply 3 Move 3 Ichor ply 4 Ichor ply 5 Move 4 Ichor ply 6 Ichor ply 7 Move 5 Ichor ply 8 Ichor ply 9 Move 6 Ichor ply 10 Alabaster pieces need not move off ichorated square Does this look right?
Note that the moving Wounded Fiend in the prior comment could belong to either player if it was forced to flee by a Go Away.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
Gee, now I wonder where he could have gotten the idea for this game, huh? Well, you know what they say, 'immitation is the sincerest form of flattery' so I guess I should be honored, eh? To anyone who is not overly familiar with this web site I suggest you scroll down on this comments page and click on the link for Double Chess below or find it in the alphabetical index (the one with my name next to it). Anyone can create a variant on a 16 by 8 board but it's not going to have the same 'feel' of regular chess like my variant Doublechess does. I have always felt that games with two kings are flawed. Chess should be single-minded. Checkmate one king, period!
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Quoth the Betza: 'The Leaf Pile cannot move of its own accord onto an ichorous square, nor onto a square containing a statue, nor onto a square containing a single mummy but no other pieces. It can move onto a non-ichorous non-Ghast square which contains a mummy and at least one other piece.' Does that mean that a Leaf Pile can move of its own accord onto a square containing TWO mummies? That's my interpretation. (NOTE: Two mummies can be on the same square by pushing one onto another)
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
He probably got the idea from all the 'Double Chess' variants that have popped up in the past 100 years. Basically, though, few of the double-wide 'real' chess games play like chess for club-strength (Class C and Up) chessplayers. Standard Knights play a reduced role on larger boards (for example, 7 moves to move between end files) and standard Bishops also lose some of their lateral value. Adding power pieces is one way to compensate (whether 3 Qs, RN, BN, whatever) but that tends to reduce minor pieces to sacrificial fodder. Fans of more subtle play are likely to be disappointed. I actually like the 'mate two Kings' idea in Sirotkin's game somewhat better, as it compensates somewhat for the stronger forces and reigns in the value of the initiative a bit (sacs that may win one K must be balanced against a material disadvantage in pursing the other).
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Editor](/index/editor.gif)
Ultima Variants. See <a href="http://www.chessvariants.com/index/displaycomment.php?commentid=243">Peter Aronson's comment</a>.
<br>Ultimate Ultima. See <a href="http://www.chessvariants.com/index/displaycomment.php?commentid=237">Gnohmon's comment</a>.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Editor](/index/editor.gif)
More comments may be found in the
<a href='http://www.chessvariants.com/index/listcomments.php?subjectid=YellowJournalism'>YellowJournalism</a> discussion.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
This game is really something! To me the best large variant of chess! WHY is it not a recongnized variant yet???? :-)
25 comments displayed
Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.