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i was planning on voting against shogi and xiangqi for this tourney for the same reason that mhowe objects to gothic and omega - they are games for which one can fairly easily find an online opponent; dshort runs an omega tourney on richard's pbem server about once a year - there is one currently going. i also saw this tourney as an opportunity to play some more unusual games that rarely get played. <P> i also vote no for machines. i get enough of zillions too. the quirks of zillions thinking process are wellknown and can often be used against it, so i am interested in seeing how people play these games. if programmers are really interested in trying out their programs, i'd suggest running a separate tourney for that.