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Comments by MatsWinther

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M Winther wrote on Thu, May 18, 2006 12:21 PM UTC:
I have been experimenting with yet another pawn, the 'Harpy'. It can 'unfold its wings' and fly to any empty square on the board, except the first and last rank. Its value is 1.5. I have implemented it in Harpy Chess (zrf). I suppose it can be introduced in many chess variants. It works because, after it has landed, it costs a move to 'fold its wings', and become a normal Harpy pawn again. In the mean time the Harpy cannot move.
(BTW, my 'Shamanic Chess' has been much improved.)
--Mats

Enochian Chess. Four-player team variant of the Golden Dawn. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
M Winther wrote on Thu, May 18, 2006 12:32 PM UTC:
I believe that the divination aspect was very important in historical chess
variants. Nigel Pennick, in 'Games of the Gods' (1988), discusses this
aspect in games generally. The dice chess variants are particularly 
suited for divination, it seems, such as Oblong Shatranj with die.
--Mats

M Winther wrote on Thu, May 18, 2006 03:09 PM UTC:
Jeff, concerning divination, this phenomenon of how the divine coincides with the profane is evident in religious history. Prof. Rangachar Vasantha says that '...[c]hess was genetically linked to magical and religious rituals, which have been known in India from ancient times. Chess and other board games were derived from, and the moves of the pieces are being closely related to the movements of the celestial bodies and their numerical symbolism.'

We modern people tend to see chess as simply a martial game for entertainment. But such a simplistic view was unthinkable for the ancient people. Pavle Bidev discusses these issues and how Murray, typically, rejected the notion that original chess was 'based upon certain fundamental conceptions of the Universe.'
http://www.goddesschess.com/chessays/bidev1.html

Game depictions notoriously appear at holy places. They could, in some sense, have been deliberate sacrifices to the gods, and the spirits of the dead, for their pleasure and entertainment. Hence, the gods are drawn to the temple. It is similar to the well-known food-sacrifice. In the Christian context the encircling of the Fox, in Fox and Geese, could be viewed as an expression of the cloister community's continuous work to encircle Christ. I mean, it could be viewed as an unconscious expression. Thus, it is not wholly profane.

A good example of a 'holy game' was the Egyptian Senet. The '...stratagems of the game reflect nothing less than the stratagems of the gods, [and] senet, when properly understood, can reveal essential Egyptian religious beliefs about the afterlife.'
http://www.gamesmuseum.uwaterloo.ca/Archives/Piccione/index.html --Mats
(link updated today)

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M Winther wrote on Thu, May 18, 2006 05:55 PM UTC:
Joost, you have a strong point there. There is an immense number of
interesting possibilities. A piece could be a rook in its fight mode, but
it can in an instant turn into some kind of long-leaper, for instance. Why
it works is because it costs a move to return it to its rook-state again,
which is necessary, because it cannot capture in its long-leap state. The
Harpy was implemented so that it must return to fight state before being
again able to move like a Flying Harpy. But it's also possible to
implement the double mode piece so that it can remain in the
transport-mode, and make several non-capturing leaps in that state. It
depends on the game context which is best, I suppose.
--Mats

M Winther wrote on Sat, May 20, 2006 05:44 AM UTC:
Net Chess: It's an interesting concept, but the Z engine plays it very badly. Zillions programmers should know that there are simple methods of tweaking which makes the program play much better. Most of my chess zrf:s have been tweaked in order to function. It's a great waste that programmers implement chess varaints but don't bother to make them play well. In this case the engine always puts pieces on the intersections because they cannot be captured there. On the other hand they are useless there. So, for instance, one could punish this move by flipping an invisible piece beside the board.
(BTW, I have now tweaked my Harpy Chess to play better.)

Capablanca's Chess. Play Capablanca's Chess on the Play-by-Mail system![All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
M Winther wrote on Sun, May 28, 2006 05:53 AM UTC:
Try my zrf. How does it compare? Capablanca's Chess.
By the way, does anybody know why Capablanca's setup is, by some, regarded inferior to the setup in Gothic Chess, for instance?
--Mats

M Winther wrote on Sun, May 28, 2006 04:26 PM UTC:
Stephen, to create a 4-handed chess program that you can use as an
interface to play over the Internet is easy in Zillions. However, it's
not easy to make the engine play a good game of 4-handed chess. It's much
better at 2-handed chess.

I don't understand the argument that it allows a fools mate. Fide-
chess also allows a fools mate in two moves. But it still the best setup. BTW,
there is no fool's mate in Capablanca's chess.

(There is some problem with this message board software because it allows too 
long lines. Line break doesn't seem to work sometimes. I had to manually insert 
some CRs  in order not to exceed line length.)
-Mats

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
M Winther wrote on Mon, May 29, 2006 07:21 PM UTC:
A new piece, correct me if I'm wrong. The Elk moves differently depending on the colour of the square. If positioned on a black square it moves like a Rook. If positioned on a white square it moves like a Knight. This actually works! The knight move always implies change of square colour. It is a very interesting piece for the tactician. It is logical to combine a short leaper with a long slider this way. Note that it is a much lighter piece than the Chancellor. The Elk's value is 4, that is, Knight + pawn, or Bishop + pawn. In regular chess the Rooks play a passive role in the first half of the game. The Elk has part of the Rook's power, which can now be utilized early in the game. It is powerful enough to give mate to a lonely King.

The elk (amer. 'moose') has actually been trained for battle service, in the cavalry of Charles XII of Sweden (1682-1718). Elks are much faster and more powerful than horses. However, it proved a time-consuming and costly task to train elks so the project was abandoned.

I implemented a zrf called Elk Chess.
--Mats

M Winther wrote on Tue, May 30, 2006 06:36 AM UTC:
Joe, the evaluation of the Elk builds on tests with Zillions. Zillions
internal evaluation algorithm places its value between a knight and rook.
It is quite logical because it is not a knight *and* rook. It is a knight
*or* rook. Hence its value is the average of 3 and 5. However, as its
knight capabilities are reduced (it cannot jump to white squares) its
value should be less than 4. But the Elk's maneuverability makes its rook
capabilities more useful. This increases its value to around 4. I suppose
it's logical. It is true that I have   chosen the simple method of
exchanging a piece in the Fide setup. It is much easier to test a piece in
a well-known context. Moreover, the result happens to be quite fun and
interesting. New tactical and strategical aspects are introduced. But
please feel free to use the new pieces in more ambitious game constructs.
Due to its relative low evaluation it is a very useful piece. Comparatively, a 
Chancellor isn't very useful. Its value is so great so you can't use it very 
much, except exchanging it for an enemy Chancellor or queen. 
--Mats

M Winther wrote on Tue, May 30, 2006 09:45 AM UTC:
Joe, I followed your suggestion and replaced the knights with Elks, instead of the rooks. It's implemented as a variant in my Elk Chess. It seems to work fine, too. I think it has to do with the fact that the Elk's value is on a par with the other pieces. If one introduces Chancellors to the Fide setup, I don't think the game would work very well.
--Mats
(and now I've uploaded a bugfixed version)

M Winther wrote on Tue, May 30, 2006 02:52 PM UTC:
Doug, 
Yes, in the variant where Elks replace the rooks.
--Mats

M Winther wrote on Tue, May 30, 2006 07:20 PM UTC:
Alfred, I don't think it matters much that names sometimes collide. If I
search the Internet, and check the Encyclopedia of Chess Variants, then I
will find that all the good names are already taken. If the name
'Scorpion' had already been used by an established chess variant, then I
would have chosen another name. But the 'Scorpion King' is more of a
phantasy piece,it's fun, but will surface very rarely. I did not know
about the 'Elch', but it seems like it hasn't even been implemented in
a game(?). Then it's no problem at all. I can employ that name for a
piece that is likely to be more successful than the 'Elch'.

In chess it is common rule that it's not the first inventor of a
variation that has the right to the variation name. The variation receives
the name of the chessplayer who has employed the variation, analysed it,
played it, and put down a great deal of work in it. Anybody could invent
opening variations 'en masse'. This does not mean that they belong to
this chess player and that ECO should relate his name. It's the same
thing with chess pieces. Anybody could invent chess pieces. But that's
not enough. He has to employ them in a game construct, etc. And when it
has become established and well-known, then the piece name is fully
established, too. I don't think anybody would name their new pieces
Chancellor or Archbishop, for instance.

M Winther wrote on Wed, May 31, 2006 04:14 PM UTC:
Alfred, I think the asymmetry in Elk Chess is probably good.
It creates a strategical tension, and castling will tend to be
on different wings. Moreover, should it not be asymetric, then
the Elks would tend to be exchanged immediately, e.g.,
1.Eg3 Eg6.

Concerning the Elephant (in my Elephant Chess), this is not
my invention. It derives from time-honoured Burmese Chess,
where it is called Elephant, and it also exists in Shogi, where
it is called Silver General.
--Mats

Zip Chess ZIP file. After the first move, Pawns can advance any distance.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
M Winther wrote on Wed, May 31, 2006 05:58 PM UTC:
Why don't Zillions programmers post their games to the 
Zillions site, too? Then their zrf:s needn't disappear like this.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
M Winther wrote on Thu, Jun 1, 2006 07:57 AM UTC:
Joe, no that does not qualify to be mentioned! But I am still not convinced
that the notion of Elks together with Rooks works that well. What are the
Rooks supposed to do when the Elk takes control of an open file? They
can't oppose because the rook is worth more than the Elk. However, I
later found out that, thanks to Elks, one can play on the wings instead
and temporarily ignore the open files. So it's possible that this variant
works anyway. Time will tell.
--Mats

M Winther wrote on Thu, Jun 1, 2006 02:07 PM UTC:
Alfred, I think I will have a break now. If you have a good game idea you
could always ask somebody at the Zillions site to implement it. Sometimes
they will.
--Mats

M Winther wrote on Fri, Jun 2, 2006 04:39 AM UTC:
Joe, I don't know what got you upset. If it was the trivial idea of
replacing the knights with Elks, I had already investigated that before
you proposed it, and I had dismissed it, for reasons I already  told. But
when you proposed it again I investigated it again, and decided to add it
as a variant. There is too much touchiness in this forum sometimes. 
I have not claimed that the Mammoth is my invention. I say on my homepage,
and in my zrf:s that '...The Mammoth piece (also called Mastodon) is not 
entirely new. Under other names it appears as the queen analog in Grand 
Shatranj and as the royal piece in Atlantean Barroom Shatranj. In EV 
Greenwood's Renniassance Chess (not misspelt) from 1980, the piece is 
named Squire.' So these allegations directed against me are false. Other 
inventors have already acquired the Squire and renamed it, before I did so. 
Probably they had no idea that the Squire existed. Moreover, the demand 
that I should have to check up every obscure fairy piece in all kinds of 
publications, before I appropriate a piece name, is ridiculous. 

Anyway, I now leave this forum because there is a very strange underlying 
enmity here. I feel no need to put up with it.
--Mats

Secutor ChessA game information page
. Introducing the Secutor piece, and new collision-capture, on a Gustavian board (zrf available).[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝M Winther wrote on Fri, Sep 22, 2006 08:21 AM UTC:
How about thanking me for the work I put down, instead? I decided to
abandon this forum to avoid being hacked on. Obviously it didn't help. In
fact, I have lately been been using four board types: Gustavian, H-board,
the 80-squared board, and the standard board. The reason why I link 
externally is because I cannot upload any files because of some error. 
Even though I have created many new interesting pieces this is regarded 
as so unimportant so I shouldn't be allowed more than one little external 
link page. It is astoundingly ungenerous! I do not simply add a new piece 
to a board arbitrarely. All my variants have been tested to create the setup
which is the most strategically many-sided. Many setups simply don't work. I 
have also created new graphics. I have introduced these pieces in a regular
piece context so it's easier to get a feel for them, and decide upon the
piece-value of the new piece. All the games have a different character,
and they work very fine. My idea is that the new pieces can later be
inserted in other more unusual contexts, with several different piece
types. Namik Sade has already begun doing this work, in two new games, as
far as I know. By using my programs you can decide whether you like the
piece, and whether it's suitable in your own game construct. 

I have endeavoured to create pieces (I have discarded several) which
function well together with the Western piece set. As their piece-value
seem to rhyme with the traditional pieces, they can be mutually exchanged,
something which greatly increases the combinative, and strategical,
possibilities. I suspect this aspect has received too little attention in
many game constructs. One should not simply add many pieces to a board
without investigating their relations, in terms of value. The game could
become cramped an uninteresting, because the pieces must often avoid each
other, and the combinative and strategical possibilities are thereby
reduced. Those people, like 'none' (a suitable name), who think that my
games are not innovative enough, simply don't understand chess. What
makes a chess variant interesting is what goes on *under* the surface, in
terms of interesting combinations, endgame qualities, and strategical
brainteasers. With these new pieces new forms of combinations are
introduced to the chessboard, which have never occured before in chess
history. Such aspects decide whether a game has original and striking
characteristics, and not whether it appears, on the surface, to be
innovative. If you create a game on a star-shaped board, for instance, and
put many unusual pieces on it, this does not necessarily mean that it's a
genuinely innovative variant.

I am convinced that my variants are good games, but it should be possible
to create even better games by introducing these new pieces in other
contexts. That's for other innovators to ponder over. Moreover, it's
likely that the new methods of movement, the bounce-movement, the
collision-capture, two leg cannon capture, etc., can stimulate yet more
piece-types. In Doublebarrel Chess I introduce practical new rules for 
introducing a pair of extra pieces to the standard board. My contributions 
should stimulate game constructors, and fairy problem composers, while 
people with inferiority complexes ought to shut up.

💡📝M Winther wrote on Fri, Sep 22, 2006 02:28 PM UTC:
(Thanks Jeremy) Andy says that I am 'extremely rude', but he has no complaints about the anonymous poster who tries to convince the editors to remove my chess variants and merely allow me one page. Talk about rudeness! Obviously this person is a regular visitor to this page, otherwise he wouldn't have visited the 'What's New' page and expressed this kind of view. It doesn't speak to his advantage that he chooses to remain anonymous when criticising others.

ChessVA computer program
. Program for playing numerous Chess variants against your PC.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
M Winther wrote on Fri, Sep 29, 2006 08:12 PM UTC:
A match was played between Zillions and ChessV (v.0.9), at 15s per
move on a 1.6 Ghz computer. ChessV is white in the odd games.
The result was 4 - 4. Zillions won both in Janus Chess. ChessV
calculates deeper, but Zillions's evaluation function seems better.
I suppose ChessV is stronger in the more technical variants, such
as Kinglet Chess. Probably the result will vary much depending
on computer and time used. My own zrf was used for this match.
Several games were quite interesting. The games are included
in the zip-file.
http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/capablanca.htm


Zillions vs. ChessV
_________________________

Janus Chess: 1 - 0, 1 - 0

Capablanca's: 1/2 - 1/2, 0 - 1

Bird's Chess: 1/2 - 1/2, 0 - 1

Embassy Chess: 1 - 0, 0 - 1

Mats W

Pegniar ChessA game information page
. Introducing the Pegniar, a very interesting bifurcating bounce-slider, on a Gustavian board (zrf available).[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝M Winther wrote on Sat, Sep 30, 2006 09:24 AM UTC:
It could be a good idea to try the Gustavian board in cases where you could
use the standard 80-square board. Strategically it's a different game. The
knights remain equal in value to the bishops. The pawns retain their
strategical importance as there are only eight of them. The Gustavian
board allows less free space to the Archbishop and the Chancellor and so
their tactical possibilities are fewer. It's a different game, but
whether it's better is another thing.

My Pegniar Chess is today updated as the previous setup was awkward while
it made the Pegniars too dominant.

Mats

💡📝M Winther wrote on Sun, Oct 1, 2006 07:31 AM UTC:
Sam, I have downloaded your Capablanca Gustavian from Yahoo. You 
have in some variants placed the rooks on the extra corner squares 
instead of the Archbishops/Chancellors. The rooks are hemmed in on 
those squares whereas the Archbishops/Chancellors are not. Your 
'Flanking Archbishops Gustavian' is much better. May I suggest that you 
use the H-board for those variants where the rooks must be placed on 
the extra squares? Then the rook has immediate access to the a- and 
h-files. You could also implement a new form of castling (H-board castling). 
Then you could also keep the regular coordinates. In all variants 
you could also keep the standard castling rules. There should also be a 
variant with an Archbishop and Chancellor on the extra Gustavian squares.

Mats

💡📝M Winther wrote on Sun, Oct 1, 2006 07:34 AM UTC:
What? The Saudia-Arabian government has banned my site? But you can also
download my variants from http://www.zillionsofgames.com/ .
Christine and Namik post their games here, too, and a few others, like 
K. Scherer, who only post their variants there. 

Mats

ChessVA computer program
. Program for playing numerous Chess variants against your PC.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
M Winther wrote on Sun, Oct 1, 2006 07:44 AM UTC:
Awkward play by Zillions in the opening. But Zillions can easily be made to 
make good pawn opening moves by introducing rewards for such moves. 
As soon as Zillions has moved two pawns he continues to move pawns and 
pieces in a natural way. One can also introduce a reward for castling, and 
punish early queen moves. If one makes these additions to the code then 
Zillions plays chess very humanlike and positionally interesting. The effect is 
remarkable. Zillions's style is quite humanlike because it plays such a 
varied game of chess. It also understands to attack with the pawn on the 
flanks. It is sad that Zillions programmers don't use these tricks because 
there are so many implementations where Zillions plays too much with the 
pieces in the opening, which makes the games less interesting, and the 
play much weaker. You can have a look at the code in my zrf's. In most 
cases you can simply copy it, although it can certainly be improved in many 
ways. Note that I have often also added links from the corner squares. This 
simple trick is a good idea because it discourages Zillions from wasting 
king moves to the corner squares, something which is even more important 
in the Gustavian case.

Secutor ChessA game information page
. Introducing the Secutor piece, and new collision-capture, on a Gustavian board (zrf available).[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝M Winther wrote on Mon, Oct 2, 2006 12:07 PM UTC:
I cannot upload any images, I get an error, so I could not write an
article. But my bifurcation pieces would really need an overview article.
Some of these pieces are good, I think.

Mats

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