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Comments by MatsWinther
I believe that the divination aspect was very important in historical chess variants. Nigel Pennick, in 'Games of the Gods' (1988), discusses this aspect in games generally. The dice chess variants are particularly suited for divination, it seems, such as Oblong Shatranj with die. --Mats
Jeff, concerning divination, this phenomenon of how the divine
coincides with the profane is evident in religious history. Prof.
Rangachar Vasantha says that '...[c]hess was genetically linked to
magical and religious rituals, which have been known in India from
ancient times. Chess and other board games were derived from, and
the moves of the pieces are being closely related to the movements
of the celestial bodies and their numerical symbolism.'
We modern people tend to see chess as simply a martial game for entertainment. But such a simplistic view was unthinkable for the ancient people.Pavle Bidev discusses these issues and how Murray,
typically, rejected the notion that original chess was 'based upon
certain fundamental conceptions of the Universe.'
http://www.goddesschess.com/chessays/bidev1.html
Game depictions notoriously appear at holy places. They could, in some sense, have been deliberate sacrifices to the gods, and the spirits of the dead, for their pleasure and entertainment. Hence, the gods are drawn to the temple. It is similar to the well-known food-sacrifice. In the Christian context the encircling of the Fox, in Fox and Geese, could be viewed as an expression of the cloister community's continuous work to encircle Christ. I mean, it could be viewed as an unconscious expression. Thus, it is not wholly profane.
A good example of a 'holy game' was the Egyptian Senet. The '...stratagems of the game reflect nothing less than the stratagems of the gods, [and] senet, when properly understood, can reveal essential Egyptian religious beliefs about the afterlife.'
http://www.gamesmuseum.uwaterloo.ca/Archives/Piccione/index.html --Mats
(link updated today)
We modern people tend to see chess as simply a martial game for entertainment. But such a simplistic view was unthinkable for the ancient people.
http://www.goddesschess.com/chessays/bidev1.html
Game depictions notoriously appear at holy places. They could, in some sense, have been deliberate sacrifices to the gods, and the spirits of the dead, for their pleasure and entertainment. Hence, the gods are drawn to the temple. It is similar to the well-known food-sacrifice. In the Christian context the encircling of the Fox, in Fox and Geese, could be viewed as an expression of the cloister community's continuous work to encircle Christ. I mean, it could be viewed as an unconscious expression. Thus, it is not wholly profane.
A good example of a 'holy game' was the Egyptian Senet. The '...stratagems of the game reflect nothing less than the stratagems of the gods, [and] senet, when properly understood, can reveal essential Egyptian religious beliefs about the afterlife.'
http://www.gamesmuseum.uwaterloo.ca/Archives/Piccione/index.html
(link updated today)
Joost, you have a strong point there. There is an immense number of interesting possibilities. A piece could be a rook in its fight mode, but it can in an instant turn into some kind of long-leaper, for instance. Why it works is because it costs a move to return it to its rook-state again, which is necessary, because it cannot capture in its long-leap state. The Harpy was implemented so that it must return to fight state before being again able to move like a Flying Harpy. But it's also possible to implement the double mode piece so that it can remain in the transport-mode, and make several non-capturing leaps in that state. It depends on the game context which is best, I suppose. --Mats
Net Chess: It's an interesting concept, but the Z engine plays it very
badly. Zillions programmers should know that there are simple methods of
tweaking which makes the program play much better. Most of my chess zrf:s
have been tweaked in order to function. It's a great waste that
programmers implement chess varaints but don't bother to make them play
well. In this case the engine always puts pieces on the intersections
because they cannot be captured there. On the other hand they are useless
there. So, for instance, one could punish this move by flipping an
invisible piece beside the board.
(BTW, I have now tweaked my Harpy Chess to play better.)
(BTW, I have now tweaked my Harpy Chess to play better.)
Try my zrf. How does it compare?
Capablanca's Chess.
By the way, does anybody know why Capablanca's setup is, by some, regarded inferior to the setup in Gothic Chess, for instance?
--Mats
By the way, does anybody know why Capablanca's setup is, by some, regarded inferior to the setup in Gothic Chess, for instance?
--Mats
Stephen, to create a 4-handed chess program that you can use as an interface to play over the Internet is easy in Zillions. However, it's not easy to make the engine play a good game of 4-handed chess. It's much better at 2-handed chess. I don't understand the argument that it allows a fools mate. Fide- chess also allows a fools mate in two moves. But it still the best setup. BTW, there is no fool's mate in Capablanca's chess. (There is some problem with this message board software because it allows too long lines. Line break doesn't seem to work sometimes. I had to manually insert some CRs in order not to exceed line length.) -Mats
A new piece, correct me if I'm wrong. The Elk moves differently depending on the colour of the square. If positioned on a black square it moves like a Rook. If positioned on a white square it moves like a Knight. This actually works! The knight move always implies change of square colour. It is a very interesting piece for the tactician. It is logical to combine a short leaper with a long slider this way. Note that it is a much lighter piece than the Chancellor. The Elk's value is 4, that is, Knight + pawn, or Bishop + pawn. In regular chess the Rooks play a passive role in the first half of the game. The Elk has part of the Rook's power, which can now be utilized early in the game. It is powerful enough to give mate to a lonely King.
The elk (amer. 'moose') has actually been trained for battle service, in the cavalry of Charles XII of Sweden (1682-1718). Elks are much faster and more powerful than horses. However, it proved a time-consuming and costly task to train elks so the project was abandoned.
I implemented a zrf called Elk Chess.
--Mats
The elk (amer. 'moose') has actually been trained for battle service, in the cavalry of Charles XII of Sweden (1682-1718). Elks are much faster and more powerful than horses. However, it proved a time-consuming and costly task to train elks so the project was abandoned.
I implemented a zrf called Elk Chess.
--Mats
Joe, the evaluation of the Elk builds on tests with Zillions. Zillions internal evaluation algorithm places its value between a knight and rook. It is quite logical because it is not a knight *and* rook. It is a knight *or* rook. Hence its value is the average of 3 and 5. However, as its knight capabilities are reduced (it cannot jump to white squares) its value should be less than 4. But the Elk's maneuverability makes its rook capabilities more useful. This increases its value to around 4. I suppose it's logical. It is true that I have chosen the simple method of exchanging a piece in the Fide setup. It is much easier to test a piece in a well-known context. Moreover, the result happens to be quite fun and interesting. New tactical and strategical aspects are introduced. But please feel free to use the new pieces in more ambitious game constructs. Due to its relative low evaluation it is a very useful piece. Comparatively, a Chancellor isn't very useful. Its value is so great so you can't use it very much, except exchanging it for an enemy Chancellor or queen. --Mats
Joe, I followed your suggestion and replaced the knights with Elks, instead of the rooks. It's implemented as a variant in my Elk Chess. It seems to work fine, too. I think it has to do with the fact that the Elk's value is on a par with the other pieces. If one introduces Chancellors to the Fide setup, I don't think the game would work very well.
--Mats
(and now I've uploaded a bugfixed version)
--Mats
(and now I've uploaded a bugfixed version)
Doug, Yes, in the variant where Elks replace the rooks. --Mats
Alfred, I don't think it matters much that names sometimes collide. If I search the Internet, and check the Encyclopedia of Chess Variants, then I will find that all the good names are already taken. If the name 'Scorpion' had already been used by an established chess variant, then I would have chosen another name. But the 'Scorpion King' is more of a phantasy piece,it's fun, but will surface very rarely. I did not know about the 'Elch', but it seems like it hasn't even been implemented in a game(?). Then it's no problem at all. I can employ that name for a piece that is likely to be more successful than the 'Elch'. In chess it is common rule that it's not the first inventor of a variation that has the right to the variation name. The variation receives the name of the chessplayer who has employed the variation, analysed it, played it, and put down a great deal of work in it. Anybody could invent opening variations 'en masse'. This does not mean that they belong to this chess player and that ECO should relate his name. It's the same thing with chess pieces. Anybody could invent chess pieces. But that's not enough. He has to employ them in a game construct, etc. And when it has become established and well-known, then the piece name is fully established, too. I don't think anybody would name their new pieces Chancellor or Archbishop, for instance.
Alfred, I think the asymmetry in Elk Chess is probably good.
It creates a strategical tension, and castling will tend to be
on different wings. Moreover, should it not be asymetric, then
the Elks would tend to be exchanged immediately, e.g.,
1.Eg3 Eg6.
Concerning the Elephant (in my Elephant Chess), this is not
my invention. It derives from time-honoured Burmese Chess,
where it is called Elephant, and it also exists in Shogi, where
it is called Silver General.
--Mats
It creates a strategical tension, and castling will tend to be
on different wings. Moreover, should it not be asymetric, then
the Elks would tend to be exchanged immediately, e.g.,
1.Eg3 Eg6.
Concerning the Elephant (in my Elephant Chess), this is not
my invention. It derives from time-honoured Burmese Chess,
where it is called Elephant, and it also exists in Shogi, where
it is called Silver General.
--Mats
Why don't Zillions programmers post their games to the Zillions site, too? Then their zrf:s needn't disappear like this.
Joe, no that does not qualify to be mentioned! But I am still not convinced that the notion of Elks together with Rooks works that well. What are the Rooks supposed to do when the Elk takes control of an open file? They can't oppose because the rook is worth more than the Elk. However, I later found out that, thanks to Elks, one can play on the wings instead and temporarily ignore the open files. So it's possible that this variant works anyway. Time will tell. --Mats
Alfred, I think I will have a break now. If you have a good game idea you could always ask somebody at the Zillions site to implement it. Sometimes they will. --Mats
Joe, I don't know what got you upset. If it was the trivial idea of replacing the knights with Elks, I had already investigated that before you proposed it, and I had dismissed it, for reasons I already told. But when you proposed it again I investigated it again, and decided to add it as a variant. There is too much touchiness in this forum sometimes. I have not claimed that the Mammoth is my invention. I say on my homepage, and in my zrf:s that '...The Mammoth piece (also called Mastodon) is not entirely new. Under other names it appears as the queen analog in Grand Shatranj and as the royal piece in Atlantean Barroom Shatranj. In EV Greenwood's Renniassance Chess (not misspelt) from 1980, the piece is named Squire.' So these allegations directed against me are false. Other inventors have already acquired the Squire and renamed it, before I did so. Probably they had no idea that the Squire existed. Moreover, the demand that I should have to check up every obscure fairy piece in all kinds of publications, before I appropriate a piece name, is ridiculous. Anyway, I now leave this forum because there is a very strange underlying enmity here. I feel no need to put up with it. --Mats
How about thanking me for the work I put down, instead? I decided to abandon this forum to avoid being hacked on. Obviously it didn't help. In fact, I have lately been been using four board types: Gustavian, H-board, the 80-squared board, and the standard board. The reason why I link externally is because I cannot upload any files because of some error. Even though I have created many new interesting pieces this is regarded as so unimportant so I shouldn't be allowed more than one little external link page. It is astoundingly ungenerous! I do not simply add a new piece to a board arbitrarely. All my variants have been tested to create the setup which is the most strategically many-sided. Many setups simply don't work. I have also created new graphics. I have introduced these pieces in a regular piece context so it's easier to get a feel for them, and decide upon the piece-value of the new piece. All the games have a different character, and they work very fine. My idea is that the new pieces can later be inserted in other more unusual contexts, with several different piece types. Namik Sade has already begun doing this work, in two new games, as far as I know. By using my programs you can decide whether you like the piece, and whether it's suitable in your own game construct. I have endeavoured to create pieces (I have discarded several) which function well together with the Western piece set. As their piece-value seem to rhyme with the traditional pieces, they can be mutually exchanged, something which greatly increases the combinative, and strategical, possibilities. I suspect this aspect has received too little attention in many game constructs. One should not simply add many pieces to a board without investigating their relations, in terms of value. The game could become cramped an uninteresting, because the pieces must often avoid each other, and the combinative and strategical possibilities are thereby reduced. Those people, like 'none' (a suitable name), who think that my games are not innovative enough, simply don't understand chess. What makes a chess variant interesting is what goes on *under* the surface, in terms of interesting combinations, endgame qualities, and strategical brainteasers. With these new pieces new forms of combinations are introduced to the chessboard, which have never occured before in chess history. Such aspects decide whether a game has original and striking characteristics, and not whether it appears, on the surface, to be innovative. If you create a game on a star-shaped board, for instance, and put many unusual pieces on it, this does not necessarily mean that it's a genuinely innovative variant. I am convinced that my variants are good games, but it should be possible to create even better games by introducing these new pieces in other contexts. That's for other innovators to ponder over. Moreover, it's likely that the new methods of movement, the bounce-movement, the collision-capture, two leg cannon capture, etc., can stimulate yet more piece-types. In Doublebarrel Chess I introduce practical new rules for introducing a pair of extra pieces to the standard board. My contributions should stimulate game constructors, and fairy problem composers, while people with inferiority complexes ought to shut up.
(Thanks Jeremy) Andy says that I am 'extremely rude', but he has no complaints about the anonymous poster who tries to convince the editors to remove my chess variants and merely allow me one page. Talk about rudeness! Obviously this person is a regular visitor to this page, otherwise he wouldn't have visited the 'What's New' page and expressed this kind of view. It doesn't speak to his advantage that he chooses to remain anonymous when criticising others.
A match was played between Zillions and ChessV (v.0.9), at 15s per
move on a 1.6 Ghz computer. ChessV is white in the odd games.
The result was 4 - 4. Zillions won both in Janus Chess. ChessV
calculates deeper, but Zillions's evaluation function seems better.
I suppose ChessV is stronger in the more technical variants, such
as Kinglet Chess. Probably the result will vary much depending
on computer and time used. My own zrf was used for this match.
Several games were quite interesting. The games are included
in the zip-file.
http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/capablanca.htm
Zillions vs. ChessV
_________________________
Janus Chess: 1 - 0, 1 - 0
Capablanca's: 1/2 - 1/2, 0 - 1
Bird's Chess: 1/2 - 1/2, 0 - 1
Embassy Chess: 1 - 0, 0 - 1
Mats W
move on a 1.6 Ghz computer. ChessV is white in the odd games.
The result was 4 - 4. Zillions won both in Janus Chess. ChessV
calculates deeper, but Zillions's evaluation function seems better.
I suppose ChessV is stronger in the more technical variants, such
as Kinglet Chess. Probably the result will vary much depending
on computer and time used. My own zrf was used for this match.
Several games were quite interesting. The games are included
in the zip-file.
http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/capablanca.htm
Zillions vs. ChessV
_________________________
Janus Chess: 1 - 0, 1 - 0
Capablanca's: 1/2 - 1/2, 0 - 1
Bird's Chess: 1/2 - 1/2, 0 - 1
Embassy Chess: 1 - 0, 0 - 1
Mats W
It could be a good idea to try the Gustavian board in cases where you could use the standard 80-square board. Strategically it's a different game. The knights remain equal in value to the bishops. The pawns retain their strategical importance as there are only eight of them. The Gustavian board allows less free space to the Archbishop and the Chancellor and so their tactical possibilities are fewer. It's a different game, but whether it's better is another thing. My Pegniar Chess is today updated as the previous setup was awkward while it made the Pegniars too dominant. Mats
Sam, I have downloaded your Capablanca Gustavian from Yahoo. You have in some variants placed the rooks on the extra corner squares instead of the Archbishops/Chancellors. The rooks are hemmed in on those squares whereas the Archbishops/Chancellors are not. Your 'Flanking Archbishops Gustavian' is much better. May I suggest that you use the H-board for those variants where the rooks must be placed on the extra squares? Then the rook has immediate access to the a- and h-files. You could also implement a new form of castling (H-board castling). Then you could also keep the regular coordinates. In all variants you could also keep the standard castling rules. There should also be a variant with an Archbishop and Chancellor on the extra Gustavian squares. Mats
What? The Saudia-Arabian government has banned my site? But you can also download my variants from http://www.zillionsofgames.com/ . Christine and Namik post their games here, too, and a few others, like K. Scherer, who only post their variants there. Mats
Awkward play by Zillions in the opening. But Zillions can easily be made to make good pawn opening moves by introducing rewards for such moves. As soon as Zillions has moved two pawns he continues to move pawns and pieces in a natural way. One can also introduce a reward for castling, and punish early queen moves. If one makes these additions to the code then Zillions plays chess very humanlike and positionally interesting. The effect is remarkable. Zillions's style is quite humanlike because it plays such a varied game of chess. It also understands to attack with the pawn on the flanks. It is sad that Zillions programmers don't use these tricks because there are so many implementations where Zillions plays too much with the pieces in the opening, which makes the games less interesting, and the play much weaker. You can have a look at the code in my zrf's. In most cases you can simply copy it, although it can certainly be improved in many ways. Note that I have often also added links from the corner squares. This simple trick is a good idea because it discourages Zillions from wasting king moves to the corner squares, something which is even more important in the Gustavian case.
I cannot upload any images, I get an error, so I could not write an article. But my bifurcation pieces would really need an overview article. Some of these pieces are good, I think. Mats
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(BTW, my 'Shamanic Chess' has been much improved.)
--Mats