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Recognized Chess Variants. Index page listing the variants we feel are most significant. (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Wed, Dec 29, 2004 04:17 PM UTC:

I think one way we may be able to test the quality of variants is with
computer analysis.  So, if we have a shuffle variant with, say, 100,000
possible permutations, we can have the computer play itself all of those
permutations, In order to find one that is playable.  

Of course, computers play Chess differently than humans, so a computer's
idea of playability may be different than a human's.  And, computers are
generally programmed to find the best move in a given position, so
translating that to playest a game may be tricky.  

Greg Strong is much better qualified to say whether this is feasable or
not.  :-)

- Sam

Feeble Chess to Weakest Chess. Some Chess variants with weaker pieces. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Fri, Feb 11, 2005 08:53 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

I think this game will make a basis for a game that will be very difficult for computers to play. In fact, I have made a balanced four-move variant of the game that works like this: <ul> <li>White makes one move <li>Black makes two moves <li>White makes three moves <li>Black makes four moves <li>Both sides make four moves for the rest of the game </ul> This somewhat speeds up the game, while making the number of possible moves per side so large that standard alpha-deta searches that computer chess games use completely ineffective in this variant of the game. It is the same idea as Arimaa, but not bounded by the copyright/patents that Arimaa has.

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Sam Trenholme wrote on Tue, Feb 22, 2005 12:48 AM UTC:

There are a number of chess variants and Chess-like games that humans have an edge over computers with. Arimaa comes to mind, as does go. The progressive variants also come to mind. If you want something more chess-like, I think a simple multi-move variation of Ralph Betza's feeble chess and weakest chess will make Chess uncomputable again. Check out <A href=http://www.chessvariants.org/diffmove.dir/feeble.html>http://www.chessvariants.org/diffmove.dir/feeble.html</A> and my comment there. - Sam

Symmetrical Chess Collection Essay. Members-Only Missing description[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

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Sam Trenholme wrote on Tue, Mar 1, 2005 08:43 AM UTC:

I think the idea of generalizing chess to non-standard tessellations is an interesting one. How does one play chess on a Penrose tile tessellation, for example? Unlike Go or <A href=http://arimaa.com/arimaa/>Arimaa</A>, where the tesselation can change without otherwise changing the rules (<A href=http://www.di.fc.ul.pt/~jpn/gv/boards.htm>see here</A>, for example), a new tessellation of chess requires a new set of moves for the pieces. One interesting game is <A href=http://www.chessvariants.org/shape.dir/parachess.html>parachess</A>, which uses an interesting tessellation to play chess with. Even the triangle tessellation is pretty rare, such as with <A href= http://www.chessvariants.org/shape.dir/klinzha/klinzha.html>Klin Zha</A> and <A href=http://www.chessvariants.org/44.dir/sankaku-shogi.html>Sankaku Shogi</A> (Thanks, Mr. Howe, for pointing these out). Of course, <A href=http://www.chessvariants.org/38.dir/crazy/crazy38s.html>crazy 38s</A> uses a somewhat different tessellation. Does anyone know any other chess variants that use non-standard (read: non-square and non-hex) tesellations?

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Sam Trenholme wrote on Fri, Mar 11, 2005 04:07 AM UTC:

Right now, Vladimir Kramnik is the world chess champion.  Ever since
Kasparov left FIDE, FIDE has not been considered the determiner of the
world chess champion.

Of course, it is only a matter of time before a computer becomes the world
champion.

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Sam Trenholme wrote on Wed, Mar 30, 2005 08:41 PM UTC:

Some clarifications:

* Fischer is no longer in jail.  He is in Iceland.

* The Washington Post has an editor who doesn't seem to like this fact.

10 Minute Melee. Score as many points during 10 minutes of time with regular chessset. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Fri, Apr 29, 2005 08:25 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

Very innovative idea. May be hard to keep score while the game is playing (without a referee), but this would make an excellent networking game played with computers.

Blizzard Chess. Chess, as if it had been developed by the software industry.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Wed, Jul 6, 2005 07:07 AM UTC:Good ★★★★

Cute. Of course, for this to be a full ZRF, it should support all of the revisions as different variants. - Sam

Sam Trenholme wrote on Thu, Jul 7, 2005 01:43 AM UTC:

Larry, Why do I get the feeling you're planning on working for Blizzard yourself. :-)

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Sam Trenholme wrote on Sun, Jul 10, 2005 09:16 PM UTC:

Hey, Greg, I just asked the editors to delete the image of ChessV playing
Gothic Chess and removed the Gothic Chess mention from the ChessV page
there, since you do not want it.  If other editors try to restore this
stuff; well, I've been in edit wars before.

Angels and Devils. Chess game where white has two Angels and black has two Devils. (10x8, Cells: 80) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Sun, Jul 17, 2005 09:44 AM UTC:

My main concern, just looking at this, is the color imbalance; one player
controls the white squares; the other player controls the black squares. 
It is a maxim in traditional FIDE chess that bishops of opposite colors
are draws; I am concerned that this game may be drawish.

I haven't tested it, of course.

- Sam

Opulent Chess. A derivative of Grand Chess with additional jumping pieces (Lion and Wizard). (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Sun, Jul 17, 2005 10:03 AM UTC:

This game looks to be very strategic; I would venture to say that this game
has about the same strategy/tactics balance as FIDE Chess, while being
richer in both aspects.  The main disadvantage appears to be that this
variant will probably result in longer games than FIDE chess; a blitz game
is probably game/10 or game/15 instead of game/5; a tournament game would
probably take four to six hours instead of two hours.

I especially like Greg Strong's method of coming up with this opening
setup.  Perhaps a similar heuristic can be designed so that a random chess
variant makes for a playable game (the pieces are chosen randomly or
semi-randomly, then the opening setup is chosen at random until we find
one with a good balance).

Storm the Ivory Tower. A Smess adaptation of Chinese Chess. (9x10, Cells: 90) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Mon, Dec 12, 2005 10:56 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

I have a black and white version of the board here:

http://www.samiam.org/new-ivorytower9x10-bw.bmp

- Sam

Storm the Ivory Tower

. Play this Smess adaptation of Chinese Chess with Zillions of Games.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Mon, Dec 12, 2005 10:59 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

The zip file is not available here. Look here for this excellent game:

ftp://ftp.zillionsofgames.com/games/IvoryTower.zip

- Sam

P.S. How do I change my password?

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Sam Trenholme wrote on Thu, Feb 23, 2006 01:00 AM UTC:

Hey Gary! When I saw you making the Dunst Opening in your game against Fergus I thought to myself 'That's an opening someone who is looking beyond the over-studied main lines of Chess would do. No wonder he's here on the Variants server.' I must confess I'm rooting for Fergus--I want him to prove that you have better winning chances when you play a more mainstream opening. :-)

I must confess my favorite lines in ortho-chess are the somewhat dubious gambits--the Evans, the Latvian, the Fried Liver Attack, to name three examples. Anyway, I wish your newsletter the best of luck.

Sam Trenholme wrote on Sun, Feb 26, 2006 04:37 AM UTC:

I guess the point I was making was that a chess player is generally better off playing a mainstream opening, especially in over the board play. This may be because modern chess matches are under shorter time controls than older chess games, making it so that one is better off having a great deal of memorized opening lines so as to use less time in the first moves of a chess game. Or it could be that one gets a better position playing a mainstream line :-)

The problem with the Dunst Opening is 1... d5 followed by 2... d4, forcing white to move a piece twice. The problem with 1. Nc3 d5 2. d4 is that White now can not do the Queen's gambit. These disadvantages may be offset by getting black out of his book, and playing a line where one knows the traps far better than the other player.

As a chess variants enthuiast, I also see the appeal of having an offbeat opening result in something that doesn't quite feel like chess. Ralph Betza once pointed out that if you want FIDE (modern western) chess to feel like a chess variant, play the Boden-Kieseritzky gambit (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nxe4 5.O-O).

The way I see it, anything that is reasonable in the first ten moves of chess has already been analyzed and studied by someone. FIDE Chess is a very well-trodden area, where interesting novelties are hard to find. However, there are literally an infinite number of chess variants (Chess is probably more malleable than any other abstract game) and very few of the variants have been explored at all. As just one tiny example, the variant that I just published (shameless plug) shares many pattens with FIDE chess openings, but is a almost completely uncharted territory for people looking for new ground to explore.

Just my two cents.

- Sam

Amazon Grand Chess. A combination of Grand Chess and Amazon Chess. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Sun, Feb 26, 2006 06:49 PM UTC:

I think the problem that we are seeing here is that the Chess variants site is growing in popularity enough that we can no longer practically have the free-for-all where people can do what they want with variants. Should a variant be mis-named or what not, an editor, in a perfect world, will handle the issue.

I notice that the Chess variant pages are also inheriting another problem of Usenet: Poor variants (as in, with bad names, or with poorly written rules) are getting a lot more comments and attention than good variants (cough, cough shameless plug cough, cough).

Grander Chess. A variant of Christian Freeling's Grand Chess. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Sun, Feb 26, 2006 07:25 PM UTC:

I find it ironic that, seven years after this variant was proposed, people finally make a big fuss over its name. This is not the only Grand Chess variant, and won't be the last Grand Chess variant. Unlike 'Grand Chess 2', which implies the variant was invented by the same person who invented the original game, 'Grander Chess' is more clearly seen to be something invented (or fine-tuned) by someone else.

The whole 'protect all of the pawns' business comes from two things:

When playing rook odds in FIDE chess, the rook pawn is often times advanced one square before the start of the game in order to not have an undefended pawn.
There were some serious problems with a well-known opening setup which stemmed from having undefended pawns in the opening array.

Unlike Shantraj, in 'mad queen' chess the pieces have more mobility; one can far more quickly attack the opponent's undefended pawn. This often results in the opening becoming one where white attacks the undefended pawn and black has to handle the business of defending that pawn instead of engaging in normal development. Of course, there are setups where the undefneded pawn is probably not a serious liability. For example, the undefended pawn in Aberg's variant can be defended with a normal Nd3 developing move (but this also makes it easier to pin this knight and threaten a pawn on f4).

- Sam

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Sam Trenholme wrote on Mon, Feb 27, 2006 07:40 AM UTC:

Gary, I think I am going to have to invite you to play an informal (FIDE) Chess game with me, with you taking the white pieces. I've never played a Game Courier game before, so this will be new for me.

Two questions: Can we use books and computer listings of other games using a given opening (I presume yes)? Can we use computers to help us with the tactics (I presume no)?

Why do I get the feeling this game will start off with 1. Nc3?

You're the first person I have known to like the Dunst; I have always read that it is weak. I researched it a little since Zillions likes opening with the Dunst (Zillions really likes moving the knights out early when playing FIDE chess).

Now I have to figure out how to get a Game Courier account.

- Sam

Penta War

. Huge game with five clans.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Wed, Mar 1, 2006 06:55 AM UTC:

Where do these beautiful graphics come from? I've never seen the 'Galatic' graphics before. Are these graphics copyrighted? What license are the graphics released under?

Thanks for your time.

- Sam

Royal Amazon Chess. Queens are replaced by Royal Amazons. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Wed, Mar 1, 2006 07:05 AM UTC:

My impression: This game will probably need a 'bare amazon' rule (if all pieces except the amazon are taken, the person with just the amazon loses).

I am also very leery of games where the royal piece becomes very powerful; my worry is that this will result in more drawish games, since it is not practical to mount an attack against the opponent's royal piece. Strategys like sacrificing a piece to get a strong attack against the opponent's king (think FIDE Chess world champions Morphy and Tal) just don't work because the amazon can too easily retreat.

- Sam

Sam Trenholme wrote on Thu, Mar 2, 2006 04:31 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

The idea of having two royal pieces, where checkmating either piece wins (or forking both pieces with a defended piece), I think makes for a game with more tension than FIDE Chess. I especially like one of the royal pieces being very powerful; an Amazon usually is too powerful, but making it royal is a brilliant way of restraining its power.

- Sam

Sudoku Chess

. Missing description[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Sat, Mar 4, 2006 06:22 AM UTC:

I like this idea because I like the idea of having a chess variant template which makes for a huge number of playable games; I'm not just talking about the 960 games of Fischer Random Chess or the 252,000 possible games using a 8x10 Carrera setup where the bishops are on opposite colors; I'm talking a Chess variant that allows a number of games with a number like 6,670,903,752,021,072,936,960 (the number of possible Sudoku solutions).

One idea: Each pawn can be one of nine different pawn types:

A chess pawn
A shogi pawn
A berolina pawn
A 'beroshogi' pawn (moves and captures diagonally forward)
A chess pawn that can also capture directly ahead
A berolina pawn that can also capture diagonally forward
A chess pawn that can also move diagonally forward
A berolina pawn that can also move straight forward
A 'super' pawn that can both move and capture straight or diagonally ahead.

For an 8x8 board, this results in 9 ** 8 (43,046,721) possible opening setups; for a 10 * 8 (or 10*10) board, this results in 3,486,784,401 possible opening setups.

For the pieces, any of the pieces, except the king, can have any of the 15 combinations of rook, knight, bishop, and camel movements. The king exists in three forms: Can move as a ferz, can move as a wazir, and can move as a FIDE chess king. For an 8 * 8 board, this results in 512,578,125 possible setups; combine this with the pawns above and our 8x8 board now has 22,064,807,537,578,125 possible opening setups. The corresponding 8x10/10x10 board has 402,131,117,372,361,328,125 possible opening setups. Now we're starting to get what looks like a variant template with a decent number of possible starting setups. :)

As a practical matter, this template for the pieces probably usually results in arrays where white has a considerable advantage because there is so much force on the board, but this is a thought experiment, not a practical Chess variant design.

This might work a little better: Make the atoms Betza's crab (leaps from e4 to d6, f6, c3, and g3), a fers, a wazir, and a camel. But that probably makes most setups too weak. Perhaps if we add a randomizing factor with these weak atoms whick randomly strengthens one of the atoms (makes the ferz atom a bishop atom, a wazir a rook, a crab a knight, and a camel a camel + dabbah). This causes each piece to have one of 32 possible forms; for an 8x8 board this results in a grand total of 4,437,222,213,480,873,984 possible setups; for a 10x8 or 10x10 board, this results in 368,040,959,274,957,611,728,896 possible setups.

Mega-Chess. A chess game where each piece is a chess game! (64x(8x8), Cells: 4096) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Sam Trenholme wrote on Mon, Mar 6, 2006 08:26 PM UTC:

I think this is a brilliant idea, but one that works better with Go (or, even, a Go variant) or Hex than it does with Chess. Of course, the corresponding Hex/Go variant, in order to be playable by mere humans, will need to be quite small with a low level of recursion.

- Sam

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