Comments by catugo
I have noticed that both my megalomachy and frog chess with gryphon and falcon give an error related to fast castle. Probably it is not a coincidence!
I have made the modifications you have suggested, and now it works as expected.
files=14 ranks=14 promoZone=4 maxPromote=2 graphicsDir=https://www.chessvariants.com/cgi-bin/fen2.php?s=33&l=FFFF44&d=0000AA&w=FFFF44&b=0000AA&p= whitePrefix=w blackPrefix=b graphicsType=gif squareSize=38 lightShade=#FFFFFF darkShade=#660000 oddShade=#008800 whitePrefix=w blackPrefix=b graphicsType= symmetry=mirror useMarkers=1 borders=0 captureMatrix=///////////12$$./12$$./ hussar:H:fafsWraflWlafrWsbW:wideknight:c5,e5,g5,h5,j5,l5,f3,i3,,c10,e10,g10,h10,j10,l10,f12,i12 lancer:L:fafsWraflWlafrWbF:narrowknight:b5,d5,f5,i5,k5,m5,d3,k3,,b10,d10,f10,i10,k10,m10,d12,k12 equesrex:K:KN:king--knight:h1,,h14 queen:Q:ZQ:zebra--queen:g1,,g14 manticore:M:WyasfWC:lion:i1,,i14 gryphon:G:NB2afyasfF:gryphon:f1,,f14 paladin:A:BN2:cardinal:e1,j1,,e14,j14 nightrider:N:NNC:camel--nightrider:d1,k1,,d14,,k14 marshall:C:RN2:chancellor:c1,l1,,c14,l14 assasin:S:ZFX:diplomat:g3,h3,,g12,h12 ninja:J:HWXNY:cardinal1:e3,j3,,e12,j12 lightcannon:X:mRcpR:cannon--warmachine:a4,n4,,a11,n11 heavycannon:Y:pRpafcpR:cannon--greatwarmachineferz:a2,n2,,a13,n13 mammoth:T:KADmHmG:mammoth:c3,l3,,c12,l12
Oh, yes!
I'm sorry!
In a moment!
No, it is because it looks like a heart!
This is funny!
Actually I think we still have a problem. The heavy cannon can jump (but it cannot capture) the light cannon. This can't be an capture matrix thing because $ should do them both!
@HG My preset for this game is giving an error about fast castling. It used to work. Any idea why?
Actually the name was chosen by HG!
Oh, a silly trivial mistake on my part. Thanks!
Maybe it is better if I explain what I want to do.
So there are these two pieces (in position 12 and 13):
lightcannon:X:mRcpR:cannon:a4,n4,,a11,n11
heavycannon:Y:pRpafcpR:warmachine:a2,n2,,a13,n13
The rule I want to implement is that heavy cannons cannot jump, be jumped, captured or be captured by other cannons. My captureMatrix looks like this:
captureMatrix=////////////11$$./11$$./
but probably I got it wrong.
Note the heavy cannon is a bit more than a korean cannon is as it can jump two platforms in order capture, but not move.
I think you have Missed my previous comment here, HG!
I don't know how to say that the source piece cannot hop to move, to capture, or capture said type. Meaning both ? and $.
Can someone suggest an example where the capture matrix is used?
@ Fergus,
Can you look over this : https://www.chessvariants.com/play/pbm/play.php?game=Frog+Chess+with+Gryphon+and+Falcon&settings=default&submit=Edit
preset I am attempting, and tell me what basic mistakes I am doing. I don't think my logic is very bad. But anyway I am not sure I use the proper variables.
What should happen, is that white should be allowed to move the two pieces on the back line to be gated, then black the same. It does not work as I inteneded and I don't know why. Please help1
I cannot find an Interactive Diagram of this game. I'd like an example of implementing a rules like cannot capture other cannons or other cannon types or cannot jump other cannons or cannon types. Emphasis on the plural as I need a list of pieces not just one.
Acording to the rules of the game, first white has to place it's two gating pieces behind. Then black his two. I got stuck while trying to do both move in the same turn. I have tried using continuemove, but I get into infinite loops no matter what I had done.
No matter I have made some progress!
It is definitely not that easy.
One thing is that when I try to make the move to a1 (for example), which would be an eligible brouhaha square I get an error saying that said move it is not even a pseudo legal move. By the way for now I have disabled the brouhaha squares and left the whole board intact (meaning no ----). But I could not comment the set brouhaha instruction in the pregame code.
Another thing is that the regular moves of all pieces are still displayed despite the fact that they are not legal anymore (i have setsystem the legalmoves array to () or even to null).
@Fergus & @ H.G.
So basically it can't be done yet!
Thanks, I look into it soon!
@HG Muller & @Fergus Duniho
I have looked through the musketeer chess preset and recapped a bit of the programmer's guide. I have also tried a few things. But still I have no true clue on how to do the gating. Any help with clues is welcomed. Don't bother too much though. I know you guys are busy. But some hints to where I put my code and what that code should be are very welcomed.
Very little succes s far though. This is what I have so far:
I have just read that thismove does not work in premove
Not it. I can write some echo there!
It seems I cannot add code to the premove section!
That thought has crossed my mind, too. Thanks!
I was afraid of that but it makes sense.
Is there a possibility of creating the preset with gating, especially when players gate their pieces in different places?
That is odd. For me in edge it does not work. Or at least 3 diagrams. But it does work in Firefox.
@Fergus
I could not figure out what closing tag you were mentioning. This ID still does not work properly!
@Fergus, It seems the ID does not work here. When pressing "here" the pieces are not shown. Just the legend. I know you have changed the script a bit. Any idea on what is going on?
@Fergus, It seems the ID does not work here. When pressing "here" the pieces are not shown. Just the legend. I know you have changed the script a bit. Any idea on what is going on?
@Fergus, It seems the ID does not work here. When pressing "here" the pieces are not shown. Just the legend. I know you have changed the script a bit. Any idea on what is going on?
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I have feared them being game breaking. Otherwise said, it feels like having a random effect.
Ok, I thought it is like in tenjiku shogi!
It seems people are not that interested in this topic. I'm thinking that this is because there is not a lot of experience in games with jokers.
Anyway after a intensive series of games played against the ID these days, I have concluded that on a 10x10 board at least things are ok. What bad thing that can happed is to lose connected pawns, because then the joker is not easily trapped by just moving a pawn. So one has to protect connected pawns, especially near the king, even from sacrifices. That is actually a strategic choice on part of the attacker. I think this is actually a good thing.
So my own verdict is that on a 10x10 board the joker works.
Flying pieces still do not fly!
Done!
I have pasted that at the end of the pregame section.
I have done it and it seems to be working fine!
Did not knew that! Still in the evening, but thanks!
Oh, that seems a lot of work. But I'll do it in the evening!
Now I get this:
Please report any bugs or errors to H.G. Muller
I probably mismatched something.
But neither &showcode=true (I got this from the developer guide) or &edit=true work
I get this error:
Cannot make a diagram with 0 pieces on an 8x8 board!
satellite=megalo | |
files=16 | |
ranks=16 | |
promoZone=1 | |
maxPromote=2 | |
promoChoice=EA,AM,G | |
graphicsDir=/graphics.dir/alfaeriePNG/ | |
graphicsDir=http://chessvariants.com/graphics.dir/alfaeriePNG/ | |
squareSize=33 | |
graphicsType=png | |
theme=DD | |
whitePrefix=w | |
blackPrefix=b | |
borders=0 | |
firstRank=1 | |
useMarkers=1 | |
newClick=1 | |
captureMatrix=/"27/27^^^^^=/"/27^^^^^%/32% | |
pawn::fmWfceFifmnDifmnH::a5-p5 | |
warrior::fmWfmnnDfceFbhcN:quickpawn:a2-d2,m2-p2 | |
ram:RM:mgQcfD::c1,n1,e2,l2 | |
scout::mNcA:knightpawn:g4,j4 | |
vao::mBpcB::d1,m1 | |
camel::::d3,m3 | |
zebra::::e3,l3 | |
war machine:D:yafpabmRWD:warmachinewazir:f4,k4 | |
elephant::yafpabmBFA:elephantferz:d4,m4 | |
frog::FH::a4,p4 | |
guard:GD:yafpabmRK:duke:b3,o3 | |
knight:N:yafafafpabmBN::b4,o4 | |
bishop::::h4,i4 | |
cannon:CN:::e1,l1 | |
rook::::a3,p3 | |
leo:LE:mQpcQ:paovao:c3,n3 | |
nightrider:NR:::b1,o1 | |
dragon horse:DH:BW:promotedbishop:c4,n4 | |
dragon king:DK:RF:promotedrook:a1,p1 | |
rhino:RH:[W?fsB]::g1 | |
gryphon::[F?fsR]::f1 | |
archbishop:::cardinal:e4 | |
marshall:::chancellor:l4 | |
queen::::j1 | |
lion::KNAD::h2 | |
amazon:AM:QN::i2 | |
archer:AR:WA::f3,k3 | |
spearman:SM:FD:nspearman:g3,j3 | |
bat:BA:B(paf)14cB::h3,i3 | |
raven:FA:R(paf)14cR:bird2:g2,j2 | |
eagle:EA:Q(paf)14cQ:bird:h1,i1 | |
terror::QNADcamK:dragon:f2,k2 | |
king::KispO9::k1 |
I don't think it works. I keep getting orthodox chess. Can it be that the description is too long. I have tried an Grand Apothecary game it it works fine. This is how I know I have followed the proper steps.
Thank for refreshing my memory, HG!
I did not figured out what to copy and paste into the wizard. On my variants I start with this line:
script type="text/javascript" src="../membergraphics/MSinteractive-diagrams/betza.js?nocache=true"
as far as I remember.
But a similar line seems to end the Megalomachy diagram.
I'll do it today!
I have read Eric Silverman's thoughts on powerful pieces now. Trouble with the joker is that it's value is very volatile. In the beginning it is very powerful though. One could argue that maneuvering him it is a matter of skill. This, actually is my conundrum: Is it a matter of skill or a matter or perceived randomness?
By larger boards I mean strictly larger than 8x8. Even in 10x10(where I have 13 piece types) handling the enemy joker is quite tricky. 12x12 could work, too. But larger boards would make games impossible to play if the joker is present. Just imagine Tenjiku shogi with one or God forbid more jokers.
As I have said in my previous comment I have a large palette of piece types represented. This makes things even more complicated.
It could also be that I worry too much, but who knows.
Forget about running the games on ChessV even without the Joker. ChessV does not do riders bent after the second step either. It seems y it is not supported.
This Thread is about games that contain the joker(imitator, jester, fool) piece. The joker piece is here a piece that does not have a move of it's own but borrows the last move of the opponent. It has no other abilities (unlike the one in omega chess), not even double pawn move, en passant or promotion, ability to castle etc. .
The main problem I am facing is that with increased number of piece types (which comes naturally on larger boards) it becomes increasingly powerful. I fear it becomes game breaking. I'm stuck in designing my new games as this piece is also difficult to program (more on this later). Each of the games I am designing has a heavy cavalry piece pair and a light cavalry piece (leapers- their exact abilities are not important now), a bishop pair, a rook pair, a war wagon (as I have renamed the well known falcon), a bent rider, a leaper+slider compound, a queen and of course the royal king. What I have observed by playing against the interactive diagram is that after some pawns and minors are exchanged the joker finds rather easily a central or near central position where it seems almighty. True that the opponent has a joker, too, but it is quite often when one joker paralyzes more pieces than the other. So to me it seems that the joker inserts in the game more a random thing than a good strategy reward. I have to mention that in orthodox chess I have a 1500 rating after the recent increase. Probably stronger players will feel differently. I though of having instead of one all imitating joker to have one that has it's power updated when the enemy moves a light piece and one that has it's power updated when the opponent moves a heavy piece. But this makes a game that already has a steep learning curve into something with an even greater learning curve. I'm writing this in hope for new opinions about including joker in increasingly large games.
On the programming side of things, games that have jokers are more difficult to program. And not because it's move power is difficult to program. I was able to go myself as far, but not further. It is a piece extremely difficult to evaluate. It has been proposed here to aproximate the piece value with the average strength of the enemy pieces. But this does not do it justice. The number of enemy piece types should play a role especially in games where there are many types of piece types like in those I'm designing as mentioned above (riders, leapers, pathers, leapers+riders, bent riders etc.). Moreover chessV does not accept a joker imitating a war wagon (falcon). Some I'm stock only with the interactive diagram which is a poorer AI. I know HG works on something cooler in C++ if I'm not mistaking but this could take many months maybe years.
More I'm thinking of a 10x10 CWDA with jokers. But imitating an opponent's move does not seem like CWDA to me. So I'd go for a transferrer that trasfers the move of a fibnif to a waffle for example. All of these are reasons for why I'm contemplating to take out the joker and replace it with a more normal piece.
But I have reserves to doing that also. First as I have said above I am a merely 1500 chess player. What if introducing the joker is brilliant but I just can't see it. What I find random it is actually strategic for a better player. A NNUE program for example. Also the joker is fun and it offers many tactical possibilities.
For now the best course of action seems to me to make simulations with ChessV without a joker, say jokerless varaints of the variant. That to find out the real piece values when the joker is not involved. An then when HG's more sofisticated program becomes available, try to look at games with joker (never jokers, as many jokers also make each joker more powerful) and see if having a joker makes the games more strategic and tactical, or it makes the game feel more random.
@Christine,
Thanks For including me in this discussion!
Ok, I'll remember that for the future!
I don't know why the Picture does not work! It works for me!
I though at warlock for ZW because it is related to the wizard CF.
Agreed! But I am all for publishing piece values obtained through applying your experimental method. That and other tactical or strategic tips the author has found. For example I have observed that it is wrong to move a joker, in all my apothecary games, if there are pawns still ahead because they can move forward attacking the joker while the poor sucker cannot run, as it imitates a pawn. Conversely if there are no pawns ahead moving the joker to the center can be very fruitful as it can imitate anything making it temporarily the most powerful piece on the board.
I meant that in waffle chess the preferred first move square for both knight and waffle was the same. Anyway. I get what you are saying!
Hello Kevin! Is the a reason for using fast castle here? I mean both the new pieces can leap easily not being an impediment to using regular castle. Also there isn't a development on the same square problem like in waffle chess!
Why is that? The falcon is a rook strength piece. With two Manticores there would be three strong pieces and two medium strength pieces! To me having three medium pieces and two strong ones seems a better distribution of strength.
I think a nice feature would be to allow multiple platforms for cannon like pieces. Personally as I don't like the idea of bishops in a Xiangqi or Janggi environments I'd like a pRppcR instead (where pp stands for 2 platforms). Some food for thought.
Actually I expect something along the same lines but better, meaning a stronger engine! I am aware of the fact that it can take many months, though!
Hello HG, A few weeks ago I noticed you contemplated writing a C++ code for the AI of the interactive diagram. Anything from this contemplation?
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What is scramble?
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You have a typo at the beginning of the 3rd paragraph in the rules section. You have written "wite: instead of "white".
You are welcome!
Here is the latest installer version: http://www.chessv.org/. But there are some much newer versions. I'll search tomorrow!
And by the way, has anyone news on Greg?
Once, when writing code for CwDA, Greg Strong has asked the community for an alternative named to fibnif, as he did not like it. I have proposed lancer and donkey while favoriting lancer. He has chosen lancer for chessV2!
Chu shogi, elven chess, atlantean ballroom shatranj.
I think the name for WthenB, in games where the FthenR, is present should be chosen acoordingly. So should, in more fantastic theme, the tandem be named manticore and griffin, or in an animal theme rhino and eagle should work also. Personally I like to keep, for games with less pieces, where you don't run into name exhaust, a medieval theme names for both the WthenB and FthenR. So names like duke, minister or regent come into my mind.
Nasty little Bob, I see what you've done there!
@HG, I did it first. But I think for me I explained why was that the case. Was I wrong as far as you can see? I'm wondering this as you say that if one person does it (me in this case), then it can perpetuate!
I think HG, does not refer to games that fit a "collection" of sort, but when an author promotes most of his article that, way. For example my just published games inspired by Kevin could find a their place in such a collection and therefore link to each other. But I mention nothing about my apothecary games there. That would make no sense. This is the position I'm taking and I am against the practice mentioned by HG! And I'd really like this clarified as most of my games are coming in collections!
Nothing special Kevin! I'm just happy I could tinker with new ideas. Good luck, Aurelian!
Kevin,
You have probably did not noticed my games, I have mentioned earlier!
Hello Lev,
You cannot put more interactive diagrams on one page. That makes making more pages necessary!
This game's interactive diagram still puts the panel bellow the board. I don't know why. It works well for the other 5 games!
Hello Kevin!
I hope you have noticed my collection of 6 similar games that are inspired by your Frog chess, Hannibal chess and Waffle chess! Maybe you can enjoy them a bit. If you taks a look , I'd like you to now your opinion!
https://www.chessvariants.com/rules/wafflechesswithgryphonandfalcon
https://www.chessvariants.com/rules/hannibalchesswithmanticoreandfalcon
https://www.chessvariants.com/rules/frogchesswithmanticoreandfalcon
https://www.chessvariants.com/rules/frogchesswithgryphonandfalcon
https://www.chessvariants.com/rules/hannibalchesswithgryphonandfalcon
https://www.chessvariants.com/rules/wafflechesswithmanticoreandfalcon
Hello Fergus! Many thanks for publishing the games in my collection of games inspired by Kevin Pacey. I was at an orthodox chess tournament these days and did not had time for the effort needed to publish the games. Before that, I was using chatGPT in order to write code for frog chess, Hannibal chess and waffle chess. It comes much more easy to me to do it this way as I understand the theory well enough but I just can't focus enough to write some instructions!
This is great news. Thank you HG!
To me the diagram appears bellow still.
Ok, Fergus! I'll do it later today!
Hello, HG!
As I have said earlier I require a bit of help. I have sent you an email on a private address. I'm not sure if you noticed it.
Great work, H.G.!
Thanks for telling me about the websites!
Actually, many of us here like math. If I remember correctly Fergus has a PhD in logic. I have a PhD in applied mathematics. And HG has just been invited to participate in the Physics Nobel prize decertation ceremony, I'm sure he is quite good, and that, leaving aside his programming skills. Here, we are maybe 100 people dealing with thousands of chess variants, many of them very good. There is so much we can play. To be honest I had not read well your article. It is a difficult Idea to grasp at a glance. I have published weird games too, and I have had even crazier ones. There are 8 people here who have favorited my two main games. And that is a lot here. So I'm not sure what your expectations are. But while you are here, as I see you have a Romanian name and I think you can help me a bit. I can't access these two sites: http://jocly.com/ https://talkchess.com/ I was told by a friend that probably they are not accessible from Romania. May you check if you can access them? Maybe I have a problem.
I have noticed the entities too. I though you have added them and I have added some myslef to match what you have done to the previous article.
Hello!
I require a bit of help. I have sent you an email on a private address. I'm not sure if you noticed it.
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