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Rococo. A clear, aggressive Ultima variant on a 10x10 ring board. (10x10, Cells: 100) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]However it is not possible to explain everything by images ;) It is true Rococo is a nice game, but its rules are difficult enough to describe.
I wonder if someone considers making a Mini-Rococo (I can't think of a better name,) which uses the standard chess board and pieces (without flipping the rook) ?
I would propose this setup :
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
8 |\\\|\b\|\n\|\k\|\q\|\n\|\r\|\\\|
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
7 |\\\|:p:| p |:p:| p |:p:| p |\\\|
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
6 |\\\| |:::| |:::| |:::|\\\|
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
5 |\\\|:::| |:::| |:::| |\\\|
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
4 |\\\| |:::| |:::| |:::|\\\|
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
3 |\\\|:::| |:::| |:::| |\\\|
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
2 |\\\| P |:P:| P |:P:| P |:P:|\\\|
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
1 |\\\|\R\|\N\|\Q\|\K\|\N\|\B\|\\\|
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
a b c d e f g h
The edge squares are marked with \\\ . Don't mind the checkering.
P's are Canon pawns, they promote on the 7th or the 8th rank.
K is King.
Q is Pushme-Pullyu
R is Immobilizer
N is Long-Leaper
B is swapper (or Chameleon, but i hate this piece.)
What do you think ?Continue : Mini-Rococo can be possibly played with the rule than no more than two pieces can be captured on the same turn. (Why two ? to make it different from chess, that's all.)
This type of alphanumeric diagram doesn't work because people have different settings in their browsers. With a different type face the squares aren't aligned. It simply doesn't work. People have to start using a different form of diagram. I demosnstrated earlier that it's possible to use html tables to create chess boards of all sizes. /Mats
Joe Joyce wrote on Sun, Apr 29, 2007 10:24 AM UTC:There is a typo in the alphanumeric description of the positions of the kings. They are listed, as are the chamelions, as being on e1 and e8.
I am feeling all out of sympathy with the Chameleon this morning. Not only is it nearly impossible to implement correctly in Zillions, but it is nearly impossible to fully describe even in English. There are just too many fiddly cases when you combine captures. I wonder if it should be simplified or replaced.
The easiest way to simplify the Chameleon is to disallow the combination of captures; although that can still lead to complex cases where there are multiple possible methods of capture available at the same time.
If it were to be replaced, what would you replace it with? Oddly, this morning I find myself wondering if returning the Ultima Coordinator , discarded during the original Rococo design process would make sense. Yes, it was felt to be unclear, but then, that complaint can be made against the Chameleon as well.
'Disallow the combination of captures' would work best: Chameleon should imitate one particular other piece on a given turn. Think of Chameleon's Cannon-Pawn leap-capture: can it also capture a Withdrawer in its wake while leaping two spaces? Ambiguity. Just choosing one would be like other games 'free castling' alternatives, or choices of Pawn or bifurcation piece as to move-capture, or multipath piece particular-path availability, or JGood's Time Travel specifying Move 8 or Move 10 return.
Gary Gifford's Comment about his own PoM ''The Medusa is not be underestimated'' is rather fatuous, because as well as other games, the renamed Immobilizer, Medusa, figures in this far superior game Rococo. Immobilizer, or this 'Medusa', is forty years old coming from Ultima and of course it is not underestimated, full Queen-moving form or restricted up-to-three square form. [The PoM form also captures normally so being way too strong] In Rococo we think Immobilizer is already the strongest piece superior to Long Leaper. There have been extensive discussions for these piece values over years, Advancer, LL, Immobilizer, Withdrawer, Chameleon, all Rococo units; and incidental use in PoM is comparatively insignificant. Combined Gifford 'Medusa' and more original Morph together would have good potential if on a reasonable not oversized board. But here in Rococo is professional-design implementation of Immobilizer. After 3500 separate write-ups for CVs, it is important for designers to begin not to see their creations only in isolation. The trend unfortunately and incredibly is to take things the other way and even ignore past art.
This is my favourite game to play. I lost my first Rococo game, maybe 19-1-2 now to Charles Daniel. Congratulations. Actually, I think I had good continuation if, instead of moving Long Leaper one step, I simply moved Swapper to the square adjacent to King. There continues ongoing threat to knock off opponent's Advancer with Chameleon. And if attack on own King, Swapper just then swaps King to back rank. But the nature of Game Courier games is unrealistic being 24-48 hour delays between moves. And I lost interest focussed on commenting over here. I intend to try to keep the highest Ratings at Rococo and Falcon Chess, the games I decided to concentrate on. Rococo's great concept, Cannon Pawns, amazingly has had limited spillover to other CVs. Only mediocre Fugue comes to mind as employing Cannon Pawn. It must be on account of respect for Cannon Pawn. Rococo is one of only 5 or 10 CVs deserving own tournament or even entire website. Rococo would probably be the only one developed under CVPage auspices worthy of those entitlements. Over-all very low productivity in fully Excellent CVs within CVPage (disregarding courtesy 'Excellents') hegemony, but Rococo is one real stand-out. The other extreme novelty of Rococo would be the border squares, accessible only in capture, the Swapper's swap also counted as capture.
George, Congratulations on having many fine Rococo wins and on being the current number 1 ranked Rococo player.
I have never played Rococo, but in looking over the rules page it does appear interesting and challenging.
I do disagree with you when you state, '5 or 10 CVs deserving own tournament or even entire website. Rococo would probably be the only one developed under CVPage auspices worthy of those entitlements.'
I disagree because game 'likes and dislikes' are highly a matter of opinion and preference. Fergus's Mortal Kombat Shogi, for example, in my opinion, is an excellent game that seems to be a natural evolution of Shogi and easily deserves its own tournament and website... but, that likely may not be the opinion of many. There are a lot of games here that I believe are great, Templar Chess, Maxima, Modern Shatranj, to list just 3 examples. And I could list many more, but, my list would just be my opinion.
I do agree that it would be nice to see a Rococo tournament.
Again congratulations on your Rococo standing.
''BEYOND ROCOCO.'' Great Rococo shows downward trend by Comments: 2008 2, 2007 7, 2006 8, 2005 44... Even Robert Abbott, inventor of 1960's Ultima, came out of retirement to Comment on Rococo 30 January 2004 in one very first Comment here; just scroll down. Concept of Rococo is based on no regular type of capture, that is, no displacement capture that we are used to. Now there are other ways of capturing than Rococo's Withdrawer, Advancer, and Long Leaper. For example, there is Cannon, Xiangqi Cannon's form of capture. Cannon moves like Rook, and captures by jumping exactly one piece and proceeding to displace a foreign piece. Combination of Cannon and T. R. Dawson Canon, or Vao(1914), the diagonal equivalent, is another Queen-like piece suitable for Rococo's lathe. This offshoot of displacement-capture is unique enough to fit in with all the other Rococo units. Do I rush and draw up a 10x12 Rococo, to accomodate ''Cannon+Canon'' piece, having line-up 'Immobilizer-Cannon+Canon-Withdrawer-LongLeaper-King-Chameleon-LongLeaper-Advancer--Cannon+Canon-Swapper'? The border squares intact, ''Beyond Rococo'' becomes 10x12. RULES: SAME AS ROCOCO. No, that would be plebeian. Self-respect and respect for Rococo's invention keep the suggestion modestly here. Would inventors be angry if someone writes up the Cannon+Canon addition into some ''Beyond Rococo'' as their invention. Any conscientious inventor should be at least annoyed at false presumption of full-fledge invention.
We ignore Joyce's present ill-wording and go on constructively. Sorry, Robert. I believe everyone missed implication of Ultima-inventor Robert Abbott's Comment of 30.January.2004. Abbott wrote article in 1970's ''What's Wrong With Ultima?'' He also proposed an alternate piece Repeller for Ultima. Nevertheless, standard Ultima got played, the hallmark of genuine CV. I observed Ultima games between FIDE rounds at Reed College, Oregon USA. In 2004 here Abbott recommends ''to get rid of the LongLeapers.'' Probably he had previously thought of Triangulator for replacement of LL in Ultima and found opportunity to so state. Abbott would be right that his inventive Triangulator and Coordinator are natural pair. That's what everbody missed, Coord. and Triangulators' improving Ultima. (LL's weakness is impinging edges being unable to capture.) Inspired by Abbott's Triangulator (unbeknownst, Gilman might say), I develop different related ''triangular transference'' within text of ''91.5 Trillion...'' Disparager of Ultima, I am rather indifferent to Custodial Pawns and Coord., both missing from Rococo; but let's endorse Ultima as the breakthrough game of 1960's. As 1950's had Alice Chess, 1960's had Ultima, 1970's the culmination of Gabriel Maura's Modern and Omega, 1980's Chess Different Armies, 1990's Fischer Random, and these aughts ('00 to '09) NOTHING nothing so far, really practically nothing at all. Doctrine of free rein in artistic expression, attributable to Betza himself, results in no important new CVs emerged, by the factor of extreme dilution.
If there were a CV for the aughts ('00-'09), I nominate Rococo, although Rococo could be disqualified for lack of regular play. The business of -- Alice; Ultima; Omega, Modern; CDA; FRC -- rating the leader by decades subsequent one to another is fluid of course. David Pritchard sillily called Hostage Chess, instead of Fischer Random, the CV of the decade for 1990's.
Rococo is an excellent game. In fact it is one of the best non-chess like chess variant. All the problems with Ultima (which it self was an nice game) has been successfully dealt with.
How to use the self destruction of Swapper in game courier? I am playing a game and my opponent is unable to use this feature.
Sorry I have got it.
One can not move into check although the rules states that the goal of the game is to capture the opponent king, not to checkmate it.
pallab basu writes last year about going on 8-year-old Rococo, ''Rococo is one of the best non-chess like chess variants. All the problems of Ultima have been successfully dealt with.'' I agree. We have been omitting by accident *Rococo* and *Tetrahedral* Chess from our list of 20-50 CVs for emerging, not entirely hypothetical entities to develop. I would constructively add: (1) Forget the variants Aronson added later. They worsen it, except mirror array doesn't matter. (2) The fact that Cannon Pawns are only used one other time and that anything like border squares are rare before or after D.O.I. show respect recorded for this old classic. (3) Ambiguities are more easily resolved in cases involving Long Leaper and Chameleon pieces on the main board than for border squares themselves for pieces generally. I am pretty sure I could set up some positions involving borders that Zillions or some other thing would respond to differently from what we intend. Some of the border aspect needs further resolution. (5) Repeating somewhat, it's hard to exaggerate the brilliance and effectiveness of wonderful Cannon Pawn. (not to sound like Jeremy Good in hyperbole)
Actually, Cannon Pawns did show up in an unpublished game that Ben Good suggested -- Cannon Pawn Chess. It was FIDE chess with the Pawns replaced by Cannon Pawns. I don't remember if promotion was only to captured pieces or not. I made a Zillions rule file for it for Ben, and we may have played a bit of it by e-mail. If I recall correctly, in that environment, Cannon Pawns were awfully strong as compared to the Knight and Bishop.
Thanks, Peter. Right, I was thinking only of Fugue(2004) that used Cannon Pawn before. They're brilliant and clearly at the high-power end for Pawns, Pawns of near Knight value on 10x10. That'a why they perfect the high power density of Rococo units, that all travel all the way down the line. (Barbara Stanwyck in 'Double Indemnity' 1943: ''All the way straight down the line'')
'...it's hard to exaggerate the brilliance and effectiveness of wonderful Cannon Pawn.' Agreed. ;-)
Bent Riders going back to 700 year old Gryphon need to be organized better than Betza's article. Betza's article is a little self-serving. Another important category of piece-types may never have been defined clearly yet. Namely, Queens. Queens that differ. Face it, Queen is perfect for OrthoChess 64, and Carrera's Champion stinks. I mention that because Pritchard in Intro of 'ECV' says they would have made no difference there. Ridiculous. Now Queens don't have to capture by displacement. Here in Rococo are several other Queens with differing modes of capture. They move like Queens but Withdrawer, Advancer, Long Leaper, Chameleon, and Swapper act differently. Another example for this group is Betza's Medusa, or Gorgon, at Chess Variants with Inverse Capture. There are, or would be 50 or 100 piece-types we can throw in here that are fundamentally Queens with a twist or a tweak or a twirl, that have never rightly been grouped before.
Why is every different opening set-up of Carrera-Capablanca on 8x10 or 10x10 considered a different CV? It's the *ONLY* CV we allow umpteen CVs just for shifting to better array. Each designer's silly happy scream that hey he's got one, a new Carrera-Capablanca. Rococo starts Immobilizer-Withdrawer-LongLeaper-King-Chameleon-LongLeaper-Advancer-Swapper, that is, IWLKCLAS. If someone suggests Rococo as IWCKLLAS, bingo, is that a new CV? Of course not. That would be juvenile, and unfair to Aronson and Howe. Otherwise then like there are 40 or 100 Carrera-Capablancas, there can be 50 Rococos just by shopping around the starting array. The illogic and bad manners are self-evident, but the hard-core personalized CVers hopelessly will never stop it for Carrera's, because Capa is still a remembered Ortho-GM or something, though he died during World War II 65 years ago.
The rules are well written but just need to be updated for clarifications from the 97 comments over the years. Here are several Rococo puzzles without stress on board positions as in mates-in-three: (1) Can a piece ever legally move from border corner to border corner, X00 to Z0 or X0 to Z00? What piece or pieces under what circumstance(s)? (2) What is the maximum number of pieces that may be captured on one move? (3) Is there any piece that may never move horizontally or vertically along border squares? (4) What is the theoretical minimum number of moves for a Rococo Pawn to promote? (5) Describe the quickest possible Rococo Fool's Mate.*** ***[Fool's Mate is just problemists' Helpmates from the start of the game. Helpmates were popularized by T.R. Dawson in the 1930s. This would be a good exercise for anyone who has not yet read every rules-set write-up. Namely -- expanding on that theme -- as you read them all, for each of the 4500 CVs of the Chess Variant Page: (a) figure its genuine Fool's-Mate equivalent, and please determine (b) does any of the 4500 CVs require a Fool's Mate of greater than 8 moves? Or 10 moves? Some CVs actually take quite a few, but so many as 10? Hint: think short-range-piece CVs.]
I really should update the rules one of these days. I would need to get my head back into Chess variants a bit more before I could do that -- at the moment family and RPGs have been absorbing my mental energies.
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