Comments/Ratings for a Single Item

When using aliases, you also have to make sure that your code does the proper translations between the aliases used for notation and the piece labels used for displaying the pieces. Since the code in betza.txt does not contain the keywords alias or realname, I expect it is working with the assumption that there are no aliases. The tutorial for the fairychess include file explains how aliases may be used, which may be of help to H. G. if he chooses to add support for them. In the meantime, you would probably break your generated preset if you tried to use aliases with it.

Based on a prior post by Fergus, without looking at GC documentation, I think maybe all it takes to substitute a Dragon for a C (Applet's Caliph) in a preset is (using Auto Alfaerie PGN set):

Alias ...C D c d...

Where D stands for Dragon and d stands for dragon, in the Auto Alfaerie PGN set.

Leaving out some stuff (with ...), but I hope Fergus (and H.G.) get my drift.

I've added an edit to my last post.

One minor(?) point. In my written rules as displayed by the preset I still call a Caliph a Flying Dragon (another standard name for it), as on my rules page for Butterfly Chess. So I still showed a picture of a dragon in the displayed rules - but the Applet may insist on using a standard Caliph figurine (bishop+camel compound generated by Alfaerie piece sets) in any [preset] diagram [during play], I suppose it's possible (speaking as a layman), as the Applet abbreviates Caliph with a C in the coding as well as its offered FEN.

edit: I think I vaguely know what to do to get a dragon figurine from the applet, since it is (fortunately in this case) in the Applet's piece figurine table. It would involve substituting a dragon from the table for a caliph, somehow. Note that on my laptop, I couldn't see the table's sidebar to scroll by, unless I reduced my screen view by going [ctrl -] to get it to 90% factor (from normal 100%). It may also be the Applet can still use a standard Caliph symbol, and then I could have somehow substituted a dragon for it in my preset's diagram for during play - if I can wrap my head around how Fergus (or maybe H.G.) have already maybe explained well enough elsewhere.

I went with now using the Auto-Alfaerie PGN set for my enforcing preset, and otherwise left things the way Fergus recommended against (still, thanks Fergus). The preset seems to work now, at the least in Move mode. However, the game log I have with Joe was unaffected, and I guess would be best deleted, and we might play another test game.

Daniel/Play Tester used some sort of Alfaerie Sets (not 'Many'), without having the buggy issue I did.

Yes, it's not the use of Alfaerie images that lies at the root of your problems with alfaerie-many.

At the moment I cannot find an Alfaerie Set that's not png,

alfaerie-many is not png, and that is part of the problem you are having with it, because you have set $dir to /graphics.dir/alfaeriePNG in your code.

nevermind having all the piece figurine pictures I want for Butterfly Chess, if it becomes necessary/possible (for the sake of simplicity, in my case) to replace my chosen Piece Set in this preset of mine.

If all the pieces you want for it can be found in /graphics.dir/alfaeriePNG, then the misnamed alfaerie-allsvg might do. If not, auto-alfaeriePNG should have everything you need.

Daniel/Play Tester used some sort of Alfaerie Sets (not 'Many'), without having the buggy issue I did. At the moment I cannot find an Alfaerie Set that's not png, nevermind having all the piece figurine pictures I want for Butterfly Chess, if it becomes necessary/possible (for the sake of simplicity, in my case) to replace my chosen Piece Set in this preset of mine.

$flip is normally set within a set file. Since you are trying to override the value given to $pieces in your set file, you would need to set it explicitly in your code like you are doing with $pieces. But if you change your piece set to something using .png images and use aliases instead of trying to define your own set internally, you wouldn't need to change the value of $flip.

@ Fergus:

I don't see the expression $flip anywhere in my Butterfly Chess preset's coding boxes, that I pasted stuff into from the Play-Test Applet. Do you mean I should set something by another name (or something saying 1) to false (or 0)? I'm pretty clueless about Game Courier coding/programming still.

Your preset is using alfaerie-many, which has $flip set to true and an entirely populated $flipped array. When it is black's turn, $rightsideup is set to false, and this triggers it to use the piece name from $flipped instead of $pieces when $flip is true and $flipped has an element with the provided array key. Although you have rewritten $pieces to use .png images, you have not rewritten $flipped. So, it is using the piece names already supplied in alfaerie-many, which are all .gif file names. If you set $flip to false, this may fix things, though I still don't see any point in you using alfaerie-many if you are internally defining a set using .png pieces.

Hi Fergus.

Daniel's Tigrey preset (and Play Tester's Frog Chess preset) may have this inconsistency also, if I understand a little of what you are writing, and yet both their presets work. Is there some key difference you can see with my preset, when you look at either of their presets, when in edit mode?

Do you think it's worth changing the preset's 'Sides' to 'White Blue' from 'White Black'?

No, the $sides variable merely contains the names of the sides in the game.

It may break the game log between Joe and myself, but hopefully the change will fix the problem with the circled question marks appearing after Black/Blue makes his turns - and also show that it's Joe's turns to move (instead of always mine as White) if we try another game where I take White again.

Yes, it may break your game, but it definitely will not fix your problem. Using different color names in Sides will not change the actual color of pieces.

I tried a game with Joe Joyce, but after my first move as White the pieces all turned to question marks:

There is an inconsistency in your preset. On the one hand, you are using the alfaerie-many set, whose images are all .gif files, but on the other hand, you have this code in your preset:

set mypieces assoc
  P "wpawn.png" p "bpawn.png"
  B "wbishop.png" b "bbishop.png"
  R "wrook.png" r "brook.png"
  A "wram.png" a "bram.png"
  F "wbutterfly.png" f "bbutterfly.png"
  C "wcamelbishop.png" c "bcamelbishop.png"
  K "wking.png" k "bking.png";
setsystem dir "/graphics.dir/alfaeriePNG/";
setsystem pieces #mypieces;

The result of this inconsistency is that it is looking for .gif images in the /graphics.dir/alfaeriePNG/ directory, which has only .png images in it. So, the file names it is contructing do not match any actual image files, and it is replacing them with the question mark, which means the requested image file could not be found.

Although I came up with the idea, defining custom piece sets in your code is a very bad idea, and I do not recommend anyone do it. Just rely on your specified piece set and use aliases if the piece labels used by the set do not already match the notation you want to use.

Perhaps Fergus can help, then(?)

The GAME code generated by the Applet does not in any way refer to the color names; it distinguishes the players through a variable with the values true or false, and the color of the pieces by their labels being upper or lower case. So whatever problem you have there must be a result of some general GC behavior.

I've never payed attention to the Sides field. It has nothing to do with piece images. Pieces not showing up in edit mode is due to the starting array including piece labels that aren't in the selected piece set.

A coincidence? Carlos Cetina's Cetran Chess 3 Applet generated preset (linked to from his Cetran Chess 2 Rules Page) also uses 'White Blue' instead of 'White Black' for the 'Sides', as can be seen when viewed in edit mode for that. Oddly(?) Carlos' non-rules enforcing preset1 for Hexajedrez uses 'White Black' (the default colours for 'Sides' in edit mode, left unchanged - the second player's army in that preset is Blue with the Piece Set selected).

[edit:Note that editor Ben made a rules enforcing preset for Raumschach, that used a Blue army for the second player, and he left the 'Sides' as 'White Black' in the preset's edit mode - however, he did not use the Applet to generate the preset.]

edit2: Looks like my theory may be dashed - Vitya Makov made a Rules enforcing preset generated by the Applet: Cool Camels vs. Fabulous FIDEs. The Piece Set has the second player with a Blue army, and Vitya left the 'Sides' as 'White Black' in edit mode. Works okay in Move mode, at the least. The only caveat might be that in edit mode, the blue army shows up correctly, in spite of a complex Game Courier FEN including {} bracketing for 2+ letter long abbreviations for many of the Black piece types (White being FIDE army using just one letter per standard piece type).

[edit3: My theory looks dashed now - arx (Daniel Zacharias) made an Applet generated rules enforcing preset for Tigrey, with second player having Blue army - arx left 'Sides' as 'White Black' in edit mode - also in that mode, some of the pieces don't show up properly (black circles), in spite of (apparently Applet generated) one letter symbols representing all pieces in the FEN. That preset seems to work, in Move mode at the least.]

Do you think it's worth changing the preset's 'Sides' to 'White Blue' from 'White Black'?

It may break the game log between Joe and myself, but hopefully the change will fix the problem with the circled question marks appearing after Black/Blue makes his turns - and also show that it's Joe's turns to move (instead of always mine as White) if we try another game where I take White again.

In the diagram in Edit mode, the wrong pieces are showing for both sides (e.g. Cannons instead of Caliphs for C; edit2: however, in Playtester's Frog Chess enforced, falcons show instead of frogs when in edit mode);

This is a general problem with defining the piece images through GAME code, as you are doing here in the last part of the Pre-Game section: Game Courier then only knows which images you requested when it executes the GAME code. Which it only does when you are playing. Not while you are editing.

The alternative is not to copy these image definitions that the Applet suggests to the Pre-Game section, but rely on the piece set you selected in Game Courier when making the preset, and make sure you use the same piece IDs in the Interactive Diagram you convert as used in the selected piece set.

I've looked at the enforced Settings File for Butterfly Chess and I've noticed two things that might matter:

1. In the diagram in Edit mode, the wrong pieces are showing for both sides (e.g. Cannons instead of Caliphs for C; edit2: however, in Playtester's Frog Chess enforced, falcons show instead of frogs when in edit mode - he used a different piece set than my non-enforced Frog Chess/Butterfly Chess);

2. In the 'sides' in Edit mode, I still have 'White Black' instead of 'White Blue' (as Playtester did for his rules enforcing preset for Frog Chess, as made with Applet assistance). Don't know if that matters, but in my non-rules enforcing preset for Frog Chess, I had the sides as 'White Black' (it is similar story for the Falcon Chess preset when that is in edit mode).

[edit: in the game log I posted, my name always shows to move at each turn, even though Joe is given as one of the players - hopefully my earlier deleted game against myself did not foul things up.]

Joe moved again, with Black at move two (apparently forced to!) so I'm going to stop moving now, in the buggy preset's log in question.

[edit: when I inserted code from the Applet into my aspiring enforcing preset, there was no instruction on where to insert 'Additional Pre-Game Code' that had been generated by the Applet. So, I just pasted it (after a blank line I made) onto the tail-end of the lengthy preliminary Pre-Game code that I had first pasted into the preset from the Applet. Don't know if that could cause a bug(s).]

@ H.G.:

Could the copying mystery have anything to do with the bug in the preset that I made yesterday (see my game log with Joe Joyce, in my previous post in this thread)?

[edit: My opponent moved at turn one anyway with Black, and I saw all the pieces normally. After my second turn with White the question marks re-appeared. I told Joe not to move in a comment if he saw that again (apparently it did transpire).]

Mysterious. Copying from texts on a web page is always tricky. It could be a difference between the browser or operating system. I was using FireFox on Windows.

That it gives the error message means it does not recognize the first word as 'files'. Apparently there is some invisible layout instruction prefixed to it by the copying process. If I knew what it was I could make the Diagram resistant to it. It is likely a HTML tag (perhaps <pre> to indicate it was unformatted text). So perhaps I should strip everything up to and including the first > from any line that starts with < before trying to recognize the keyword.

I've now made a rules enforcing preset for my Butterfly Chess CV, using the Applet (pasting Haru's altered lines, as described in my previous post).

I noticed the pieces become circled question marks after I make a legal first move for White with the mouse in Move mode for the preset - with Play mode I don't have that trouble, and several legal moves I tried in a row passed, as indicated beforehand by mouse clicks. I suppose every Applet generated preset would have that quirk, at least currently.

I'll try playing a game log of enforced Butterfly Chess against myself to test it, then delete the log if no issues with legal moves being allowed for either side. [edit: after I played a first move as White all the pieces turned to question marks again (as if in Move mode?) - then the preset asked me to make a move again right then, for Black it seems. So I resigned, then deleted the log. Again may be quirks of all Applet generated presets. I'll now issue someone a personal invitation, to test further.]

https://www.chessvariants.com/play/pbm/play.php?game=Butterfly+Chess&settings=enforced

edit2: I tried a game with Joe Joyce, but after my first move as White the pieces all turned to question marks:

https://www.chessvariants.com/play/pbm/play.php?game=Butterfly%2520Chess&log=panther-joejoyce-2024-9-123&movenum=1&submit=View&orientation=auto&scale=100&render=table&shape=square&set=alfaerie-many&colors=339933+CCCC11+22BB22

edit3: On 13-1-2024 this game log has been deleted by me, after the preset in the first link was edited by me well beforehand.

This is weird. In pasting H.G.'s lines I got Game Code (in spite of only 8 files).

I did the same lines from Haru's post just now (leaving out the lines like [div], like H.G. did) and, without doing any of H.G.'s other instructions in his comment to me, I pasted it in the Applet, got a proper diagram (10 files) and got decent looking Game Code too (assuming no 'cruft' added to it somehow). There was no kind of warning above the Applet's Butterfly Chess diagram, either.

Maybe my schizophrenia is acting up, consistently?

No, I copied 'files=10' as well. Tried it again, still got 8 files. The thing is, it even said 'unknown parameter files=10' above the diagram.

I got a diagram with just 8 files (still 10 ranks), with some pieces for both armies missing.

Well, I can copy paste that text directly from my Comment into the Applet, and I get 10 files. The only explanation I can think of is that you did not select the full first line ('files=10'), in which case the Applet would not understand the line, and the width would revert to the default of 8 files.

@ H.G.:

Maybe something got left out, but when I tried to paste the text you wrote in your post into the Applet, I got a diagram with just 8 files (still 10 ranks), with some pieces for both armies missing. I didn't have that problem when I pasted (all of - I assumed even the first line and the [div] lines might be needed) Haru's text into the Applet, after I removed the blank lines there. The diagram was correct after that (minor) effort.

A text editor is any aid that allows you to add, delete and modify text on a computer. When you type a message for posting it here, you are using a text editor included in the comment-submission page. Even when you have selected Text mode in the pull-down below it, it is still a text editor, but just a simple one. And simple is good! It means 'what you type is what you get', no nonsense added. In 'What You See Is What You Get (WYSIWYG)' mode the text editor assumes the text you are typing will be used for displaying on a web page, and adds all kinds of (hidden) cruft in it as layout instructions to the web browser for how to display it, which other programs than web browsers will choke on.

I have been typing this message in text mode as a reply to Haru's message, and copied the diagram he posted into it. This shows there are empty lines between the lines of the diagram, that don't belong there. So I deleted those:


files=10
ranks=10
promoZone=1
promoChoice=BRAFC
graphicsDir=/graphics.dir/alfaeriePNG/
squareSize=50
graphicsType=png
rimColor=#12111e
darkShade=#243065
lightShade=#32a0d1
coordColor=#9eedfa
firstRank=1
borders=0
pawn:P:fmWfceFifmW*:pawn:a2,b2,c2,d2,e2,f2,g2,h2,i2,j2,,a9,b9,c9,d9,e9,f9,g9,h9,i9,j9
bishop:B:B:bishop:c1,h1,,c10,h10
rook:R:R:rook:a1,j1,,a10,j10
advancer:A:[Q-fomcK-bK][Q-fdK-buK]:ram:e1,,e10
butterfly:F:bFfbsNfsC:butterfly:b1,i1,,b10,i10
camelbishop:C:CB:camelbishop:d1,g1,,d10,g10
king:K:KisO3:king:f1,,f10


Although this looks better in the comment, copying it from the web page with the published comment still adds cruft, for indicating the line breaks to the browser (which otherwise would be joining all these lines into one to fill out the lines). But while it is in the edit rectangle where you are typing it it is still uncorrupted.

So what you do to copy a Diagram to the Play-Test Applet is this:

1) Open an extra tab in your browser, where you surf to the Play-Test Applet.
2) in the original tab, reply to the comment that contained the diagram as text (like Haru's).
3) in the edit page that appears, select text mode.
4) copy-paste the lines of the diagram from the comment you are replying to, which appears above the edit rectangle.
5) repair any damage this 'copying' might have done (such as adding empty lines) in the edit rectangle.
6) now select those lines, copy them (by rightclickin and selecting 'copy' from the menu, or typing Ctrl-C).
7) Go to the tab with the Play-Test Applet, and paste it there. This should make th Diagram appear.
8) You can the use the GAME code button

Because this message was posted in Text mode, you can directly select and copy the Diagram lines from this Comments page, and don't have to go through the process I sketched to convert it to plain text. And then paste those into the Play-Test Applet.

Of course it might have been easier to create the Diagram yourself in the Play-Test Applet than copying it from someone else. It doesn't seem all that hard to move 6 different types of pieces from the table to a 10x10 board. But it seems you are bent on doing it the hard way...

WordPerfect is also a word processor, not a text editor.

That's my point. I copy the text onto a WP document, then copy that into the PTA.

WordPerfect is also a word processor, not a text editor.

I’m unfamiliar with OneNote. Since you have Windows 10, you should already have Notepad on your computer. You can also download Notepad++ for free. It is free software that does not require a subscription.

I use WordPerfect.

OpenOffice Writer is a word processor. It is for text people are meant to read but not for text that computers are meant to run.

That worked. Even showed your diagram in the Applet right away, before I clicked the Game Code button - looked like reasonable code, too. I'll try again later, when I have time to make a preset. Thanks again.

Thanks. First I'll paste it here (in this post), edit out the empty lines, copy that, then delete it (else the diagram shows as a public Comment again) then give it a try. Sort of a poor man's way to text edit.

Remove all the empty lines between before pasting it to Play-Test Applet.

Apparently I have OneNote for WIN10, but I don't yet have an account - unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft charges for it. Right now I'm poor as a churchmouse (looking for part-time work, possible health issues permitting), so if a friend has a free text editor to offer me, I'll wait for that instead.

edit: Strange. A Google blurb says Microsoft Editor is a text editor. Like OneNote, some features are free, but likely those aren't too precious to me right now...

Hi Fergus

My laptop is a Toshiba Satellite, which is WIN10 (my techie father may have converted it from a WIN7, as there is a sticker for that on the machine).

I have OpenOffice a friend gave me (MicroSoft Office is not free). Not sure if that would work, if I can figure out how to use it. According to a Google blurb I can use a Special Edit feature of OpenOffice to get unformatted text (if Haru's had formatted text since it's on a webpage of CVP).

I have no idea how to use a text editor, if I have one on my laptop.

A text editor is a very common piece of software that normally comes with various operating systems. Windows has one called Notepad. The basic idea behind a text editor is that you write text in it and save it to a file. Unlike a word processor, a text editor works with plain, unformatted text. So, text editors are more commonly used by programmers than by writers. I use a third party text editor called Notepad++. It includes a bunch of extra features to make things easier for programmers and power users, but you can still use it to just write and save plain text.

These days, text editors tend to have standardized controls, particularly for common stuff they all support. Some of the main things to remember are Ctrl-c for copying text, Ctrl-x for cutting text, Ctrl-v for pasting text, Ctrl-s for saving a file, and Ctrl-o for opening a file. Ctrl is the control key, which is marked Ctrl on Windows keyboards, and like a shift key, you hold it down while pressing another key. On an Apple, you might use the Option key instead, but since I don't have one, I can't say for sure.

I have no idea how to use a text editor, if I have one on my laptop. I'm a dinosaur when it comes to modern day computers.

Try copying the text into a text editor, and then copying from there into the Applet.

@ H.G.:

I cannot seem to put that info into the Play-Test Applet without it expecting more information, it seems. Even before I press the Game Code button, after pasting in the diagram info Haru gave me, there is an error message saying it has 'seen' zero pieces on the board.

Thanks!

<script type="text/javascript" src="/membergraphics/MSinteractive-diagrams/betza.js?nocache=false"></script>

<div class="idiagram">

files=10

ranks=10

promoZone=1

promoChoice=BRAFC

graphicsDir=/graphics.dir/alfaeriePNG/

squareSize=50

graphicsType=png

rimColor=#12111e

darkShade=#243065

lightShade=#32a0d1

coordColor=#9eedfa

firstRank=1

borders=0

pawn:P:fmWfceFifmW*:pawn:a2,b2,c2,d2,e2,f2,g2,h2,i2,j2,,a9,b9,c9,d9,e9,f9,g9,h9,i9,j9

bishop:B:B:bishop:c1,h1,,c10,h10

rook:R:R:rook:a1,j1,,a10,j10

advancer:A:[Q-fomcK-bK][Q-fdK-buK]:ram:e1,,e10

butterfly:F:bFfbsNfsC:butterfly:b1,i1,,b10,i10

camelbishop:C:CB:camelbishop:d1,g1,,d10,g10

king:K:KisO3:king:f1,,f10

</div>

@ Haru (or anyone, especially editor[s]):

Is there any way for someone to use an Interactive Diagram posted in a public Comment like yours, so that they can copy relevant detail(s) into the Play-Test Applet (I guess that's the term for it[?]), ultimately for making a preset (e.g. for Butterfly Chess, again using the relevant Interactive Diagram info from this Comment of yours I'm replying to)?

You can tell I'm a bit lacking in the lingo, but I hope you get my drift.

Kevin

I forgot to ask, if Play-Test Applet [preset] can handle pawns that behave as in Butterfly Chess (i.e. like in Omega Chess, advancing 2 or 3 steps initially if chosen, with en passant possible in either case).

That should be no problem. The Omega Pawn can even be selected from the table.

There does seem to be a bug in the Diagram itself, though; it does not seem to generate e.p. rights for the W* move, as it should. This used to work before. I will check that later today. I don't expect it to affect GAME code generated from it.

I forgot to ask, if Play-Test Applet [preset] can handle pawns that behave as in Butterfly Chess (i.e. like in Omega Chess, advancing 2 or 3 steps initially if chosen, with en passant possible in either case).

AI seems to undervalue Advancer sometimes.

Ah, I misread the diagram, and thought it was something other than the usual Butterfly. Good catch.

No, you missed the Camel part. Butterfly is fsCbFffbsN.

And the Butterfly is easy enough: fhsbNbF.

I think that should be possible. The Advancer move is mQ[Q-fcK-bK].

I've seen that Play Tester was somehow able to make a preset for my Frog Chess CV, using the Play-Test Applet (thanks). Would such a preset be possible for Butterfly Chess, given the unusual movements of the butterfly and advancer piece types that are used?

Butterfly Chess is the last CV not to have a rules enforcing preset, of my apparently (to date) most played and liked CVs on Game Courier, one that also made it to Greg's Chess V site.

I've increased my estimates for the values of the Butterfly and Flying Dragon piece types used on this variant's 10x10 board, as I had underestimated the value of a camel piece type (not used in this game, but it's used for component parts of the just mentioned compound pieces). I initially had a camel on 8x8 or 10x10 pegged at just 1/2 the value of a knight on 8x8 or 10x10, as it is colour-bound, but I didn't appreciate that the camel's slightly longer reach than a knight gave it slightly, but significantly, greater value than I first thought, namely it's actually worth about 2 pawns (as noted elsewhere by others) if used on such board sizes. As a result, I've slightly edited parts of the Introduction and Notes sections to this game's submission.

I've edited my previous post somewhat.

I've revised my estimate of the value of a flying dragon on a 10x10 board to a full six pawns, making it just slightly worth more than a rook on average. I also revised my estimate of the value of a butterfly, making it worth 3 pawns, slightly less than a bishop on average.

I've corrected my Notes section slightly, in regard to handling a couple of early primitive threats White can make early, from the setup position.

Note to Fergus:

I've now dealt with refining the various preset submissions I've made that are pending further editorial review (perhaps as best as I can in a couple of cases, for now at least, though I think I did as you requested). That's with the occasional [edited] comment added, too.

I've (hopefully) slightly corrected the prose description of the Butterfly's move that was added in earlier by Fergus, in that I think I spotted that there's a Camel move (i.e. 1,3) component to the Butterfly's 2 forward-sideways moves move, too, rather than a Knight move (i.e. 1,2) component to those 2 forward-sideways moves. Again hopefully, my wording of that part is sufficiently clear in the submission, at least to those who visit this website.

For those interested in this variant, I'd note that I also very recently submitted a preset for this game, for editorial review.

I modified the first line and added a written description of how the Butterfly moves.