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Rococo. A clear, aggressive Ultima variant on a 10x10 ring board. (10x10, Cells: 100) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

pallab basu wrote on Tue, Dec 9, 2008 07:56 PM EST:

How to use the self destruction of Swapper in game courier? I am playing a game and my opponent is unable to use this feature.

pallab basu wrote on Mon, Nov 17, 2008 11:13 AM EST:

Rococo is an excellent game. In fact it is one of the best non-chess like chess variant. All the problems with Ultima (which it self was an nice game) has been successfully dealt with.

George Duke wrote on Sun, Sep 14, 2008 04:02 PM EDT:

If there were a CV for the aughts ('00-'09), I nominate Rococo, although Rococo could be disqualified for lack of regular play. The business of -- Alice; Ultima; Omega, Modern; CDA; FRC -- rating the leader by decades subsequent one to another is fluid of course. David Pritchard sillily called Hostage Chess, instead of Fischer Random, the CV of the decade for 1990's.

George Duke wrote on Sun, Sep 14, 2008 03:44 PM EDT:

We ignore Joyce's present ill-wording and go on constructively. Sorry, Robert. I believe everyone missed implication of Ultima-inventor Robert Abbott's Comment of 30.January.2004. Abbott wrote article in 1970's ''What's Wrong With Ultima?'' He also proposed an alternate piece Repeller for Ultima. Nevertheless, standard Ultima got played, the hallmark of genuine CV. I observed Ultima games between FIDE rounds at Reed College, Oregon USA. In 2004 here Abbott recommends ''to get rid of the LongLeapers.'' Probably he had previously thought of Triangulator for replacement of LL in Ultima and found opportunity to so state. Abbott would be right that his inventive Triangulator and Coordinator are natural pair. That's what everbody missed, Coord. and Triangulators' improving Ultima. (LL's weakness is impinging edges being unable to capture.) Inspired by Abbott's Triangulator (unbeknownst, Gilman might say), I develop different related ''triangular transference'' within text of ''91.5 Trillion...'' Disparager of Ultima, I am rather indifferent to Custodial Pawns and Coord., both missing from Rococo; but let's endorse Ultima as the breakthrough game of 1960's. As 1950's had Alice Chess, 1960's had Ultima, 1970's the culmination of Gabriel Maura's Modern and Omega, 1980's Chess Different Armies, 1990's Fischer Random, and these aughts ('00 to '09) NOTHING nothing so far, really practically nothing at all. Doctrine of free rein in artistic expression, attributable to Betza himself, results in no important new CVs emerged, by the factor of extreme dilution.

George Duke wrote on Fri, Sep 12, 2008 01:52 PM EDT:

''BEYOND ROCOCO.'' Great Rococo shows downward trend by Comments: 2008 2, 2007 7, 2006 8, 2005 44... Even Robert Abbott, inventor of 1960's Ultima, came out of retirement to Comment on Rococo 30 January 2004 in one very first Comment here; just scroll down. Concept of Rococo is based on no regular type of capture, that is, no displacement capture that we are used to. Now there are other ways of capturing than Rococo's Withdrawer, Advancer, and Long Leaper. For example, there is Cannon, Xiangqi Cannon's form of capture. Cannon moves like Rook, and captures by jumping exactly one piece and proceeding to displace a foreign piece. Combination of Cannon and T. R. Dawson Canon, or Vao(1914), the diagonal equivalent, is another Queen-like piece suitable for Rococo's lathe. This offshoot of displacement-capture is unique enough to fit in with all the other Rococo units. Do I rush and draw up a 10x12 Rococo, to accomodate ''Cannon+Canon'' piece, having line-up 'Immobilizer-Cannon+Canon-Withdrawer-LongLeaper-King-Chameleon-LongLeaper-Advancer--Cannon+Canon-Swapper'? The border squares intact, ''Beyond Rococo'' becomes 10x12. RULES: SAME AS ROCOCO. No, that would be plebeian. Self-respect and respect for Rococo's invention keep the suggestion modestly here. Would inventors be angry if someone writes up the Cannon+Canon addition into some ''Beyond Rococo'' as their invention. Any conscientious inventor should be at least annoyed at false presumption of full-fledge invention.

Gary Gifford wrote on Sat, Jun 28, 2008 06:17 PM EDT:

George, Congratulations on having many fine Rococo wins and on being the current number 1 ranked Rococo player.

I have never played Rococo, but in looking over the rules page it does appear interesting and challenging.

I do disagree with you when you state, '5 or 10 CVs deserving own tournament or even entire website. Rococo would probably be the only one developed under CVPage auspices worthy of those entitlements.'

I disagree because game 'likes and dislikes' are highly a matter of opinion and preference. Fergus's Mortal Kombat Shogi, for example, in my opinion, is an excellent game that seems to be a natural evolution of Shogi and easily deserves its own tournament and website... but, that likely may not be the opinion of many. There are a lot of games here that I believe are great, Templar Chess, Maxima, Modern Shatranj, to list just 3 examples. And I could list many more, but, my list would just be my opinion.

I do agree that it would be nice to see a Rococo tournament.

Again congratulations on your Rococo standing.

George Duke wrote on Fri, Jun 27, 2008 07:33 PM EDT:

This is my favourite game to play. I lost my first Rococo game, maybe 19-1-2 now to Charles Daniel. Congratulations. Actually, I think I had good continuation if, instead of moving Long Leaper one step, I simply moved Swapper to the square adjacent to King. There continues ongoing threat to knock off opponent's Advancer with Chameleon. And if attack on own King, Swapper just then swaps King to back rank. But the nature of Game Courier games is unrealistic being 24-48 hour delays between moves. And I lost interest focussed on commenting over here. I intend to try to keep the highest Ratings at Rococo and Falcon Chess, the games I decided to concentrate on. Rococo's great concept, Cannon Pawns, amazingly has had limited spillover to other CVs. Only mediocre Fugue comes to mind as employing Cannon Pawn. It must be on account of respect for Cannon Pawn. Rococo is one of only 5 or 10 CVs deserving own tournament or even entire website. Rococo would probably be the only one developed under CVPage auspices worthy of those entitlements. Over-all very low productivity in fully Excellent CVs within CVPage (disregarding courtesy 'Excellents') hegemony, but Rococo is one real stand-out. The other extreme novelty of Rococo would be the border squares, accessible only in capture, the Swapper's swap also counted as capture.

George Duke wrote on Wed, Oct 24, 2007 09:33 PM EDT:

Gary Gifford's Comment about his own PoM ''The Medusa is not be underestimated'' is rather fatuous, because as well as other games, the renamed Immobilizer, Medusa, figures in this far superior game Rococo. Immobilizer, or this 'Medusa', is forty years old coming from Ultima and of course it is not underestimated, full Queen-moving form or restricted up-to-three square form. [The PoM form also captures normally so being way too strong] In Rococo we think Immobilizer is already the strongest piece superior to Long Leaper. There have been extensive discussions for these piece values over years, Advancer, LL, Immobilizer, Withdrawer, Chameleon, all Rococo units; and incidental use in PoM is comparatively insignificant. Combined Gifford 'Medusa' and more original Morph together would have good potential if on a reasonable not oversized board. But here in Rococo is professional-design implementation of Immobilizer. After 3500 separate write-ups for CVs, it is important for designers to begin not to see their creations only in isolation. The trend unfortunately and incredibly is to take things the other way and even ignore past art.

George Duke wrote on Thu, Jul 19, 2007 01:08 PM EDT:

'Disallow the combination of captures' would work best: Chameleon should imitate one particular other piece on a given turn. Think of Chameleon's Cannon-Pawn leap-capture: can it also capture a Withdrawer in its wake while leaping two spaces? Ambiguity. Just choosing one would be like other games 'free castling' alternatives, or choices of Pawn or bifurcation piece as to move-capture, or multipath piece particular-path availability, or JGood's Time Travel specifying Move 8 or Move 10 return.

💡📝Peter Aronson wrote on Thu, Jul 19, 2007 12:45 PM EDT:

I am feeling all out of sympathy with the Chameleon this morning. Not only is it nearly impossible to implement correctly in Zillions, but it is nearly impossible to fully describe even in English. There are just too many fiddly cases when you combine captures. I wonder if it should be simplified or replaced.

The easiest way to simplify the Chameleon is to disallow the combination of captures; although that can still lead to complex cases where there are multiple possible methods of capture available at the same time.

If it were to be replaced, what would you replace it with? Oddly, this morning I find myself wondering if returning the Ultima Coordinator , discarded during the original Rococo design process would make sense. Yes, it was felt to be unclear, but then, that complaint can be made against the Chameleon as well.

Joe Joyce wrote on Sun, Apr 29, 2007 06:24 AM EDT:

There is a typo in the alphanumeric description of the positions of the kings. They are listed, as are the chamelions, as being on e1 and e8.

M Winther wrote on Sun, Apr 29, 2007 01:25 AM EDT:

This type of alphanumeric diagram doesn't work because people have different settings in their browsers. With a different type face the squares aren't aligned. It simply doesn't work. People have to start using a different form of diagram. I demosnstrated earlier that it's possible to use html tables to create chess boards of all sizes. /Mats

Abdul-Rahman Sibahi wrote on Sat, Apr 28, 2007 07:17 AM EDT:

Continue :

Mini-Rococo can be possibly played with the rule than no more than two pieces can be captured on the same turn.

(Why two ? to make it different from chess, that's all.)

Abdul-Rahman Sibahi wrote on Sat, Apr 28, 2007 07:11 AM EDT:

I wonder if someone considers making a Mini-Rococo (I can't think of a better name,) which uses the standard chess board and pieces (without flipping the rook) ?

I would propose this setup :
 
   +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+  
8  |\\\|\b\|\n\|\k\|\q\|\n\|\r\|\\\|
   +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+  
7  |\\\|:p:| p |:p:| p |:p:| p |\\\|
   +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 
6  |\\\|   |:::|   |:::|   |:::|\\\|
   +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
5  |\\\|:::|   |:::|   |:::|   |\\\|
   +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
4  |\\\|   |:::|   |:::|   |:::|\\\|
   +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
3  |\\\|:::|   |:::|   |:::|   |\\\|
   +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
2  |\\\| P |:P:| P |:P:| P |:P:|\\\|
   +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
1  |\\\|\R\|\N\|\Q\|\K\|\N\|\B\|\\\|
   +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
     a   b   c   d   e   f   g   h    

The edge squares are marked with \\\ . Don't mind the checkering. 

P's are Canon pawns, they promote on the 7th or the 8th rank.

K is King.

Q is Pushme-Pullyu

R is Immobilizer

N is Long-Leaper

B is swapper (or Chameleon, but i hate this piece.)



What do you think ?

Todor Tchervenkov wrote on Wed, Jul 26, 2006 07:17 AM EDT:

However it is not possible to explain everything by images ;) It is true Rococo is a nice game, but its rules are difficult enough to describe.

James Spratt wrote on Wed, Jul 26, 2006 05:23 AM EDT:

Those animated illustrations of how the pieces move are extremely clear and effective. Hat's off to Peter and David.

💡📝Peter Aronson wrote on Mon, Jul 24, 2006 03:50 PM EDT:

Thomas McElmurry had it all correct. The ZRF is, alas, as less than perfect guide to the Rococo rules, particularly those for the Chameleon, which got rather complicated and are still incomplete.

Rococo's claim to clarity is a matter of how clear the moves and captures of the pieces are, not, alas the clarity of either the write-up or the ZRF. Game rules are really hard to write well, and just when you think you've made everything unambigious, a new issue arises. As for the ZRF, probably it needs to be coded again from scratch, but I don't think either Dave nor I have the time nor energy these days. Sorry.

Thomas McElmurry wrote on Sun, Jul 23, 2006 04:53 PM EDT:

The answer to all four questions is 'yes'.

1-2: The rules on this page state quite clearly, 'Swaps with Swappers may be combined with other captures.' Also, the animated illustration unambiguously shows a Chameleon swapping with a Swapper and capturing a Withdrawer, a Long Leaper, and an Advancer in the same move.

3: The only requirement for promotion is that the Cannon Pawn's move end on the 9th or 10th rank. There is no restriction on where the move must begin. Therefore a Cannon Pawn may promote after moving along the 9th rank.

4: A move to an edge square is permitted only when necessary for a capture. Moves from edge squares are unrestricted. Suicide by an immobilized piece on an edge square is surely not a move to an edge square, and is therefore permitted.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on Sun, Jul 23, 2006 10:47 AM EDT:

I also consider 'NO' for question number 4, although I differ to you in other answers, as you see. Authors have to clarify.

Todor Tchervenkov wrote on Sun, Jul 23, 2006 06:55 AM EDT:

I find Rococo to be a very unclear game, regardless it claims clarity. But I like the game and I consider 'Yes' for 1 to 3 and 'No' for question number 4.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on Sat, Jul 22, 2006 08:50 PM EDT:

Well, I am not an author, but I think the answers are:
1.- No.
2.- No.
3.- Yes.

Todor Tchervenkov wrote on Sat, Jul 22, 2006 12:57 PM EDT:Good ★★★★

Hi! I was exploring Rococo's ZRF, I found many divergences between what I
was expected to be correct and what does Zillions do.
Now I have many questions to any one concerned with Rococo:
1) wether the Chameleon could swap with the Swapper, jumping over any Long
leaper;
2) wether the Chameleon could swap and capture any Withdrawer or
Advancer;
3) wether a Pawn that's already on the 9th rank could promote by moving
sidewards (it's clear it could not go to the 10th rank);
4) wether a piece on the outer ring could 'commit suicide' (i.e. - does
this count as capturing?).

I will appreciate having authors' opinion.

Thanks a lot.

Tony Quintanilla wrote on Tue, Dec 13, 2005 01:16 PM EST:

To anonymous: I was being facetious. There is no difference to split between what the rules say and what the inventor says.

Anonymous wrote on Mon, Dec 12, 2005 10:48 PM EST:

No need for splitting the difference, just play the game both ways: one version for people that insist on 'Long Leapers' having the power of 'Near Leapers' - and another version for those that prefer to play it the other way.

(As for reference to old emails, unless they are extremely old documents, they'd have to be subject to authentication somehow, and I'm not sure they are even capable of that.)