Ratings & Comments

anybody reads this? can use it if u want… but I recommend to rename and put in another game

I discovered a bug in the GAME code I added in my attempt to fix the problem. (writing 'task' instead of '#task'). I think it should be solved now.

In that event, if I'm understanding this correctly, moving a Pawn to b7 should also block the Giraffe. In any event, changing the corner piece from Limping Queen shouldn't be the answer (I'd want to leave that move open as a possibility); you could just switch the Zerdinal and Aviaanca, for example, or have the Giraffe start in a different spot where it can't move to a place that threatens the King.

@ HG: thank you for your answer. Indeed, all my other games with King's jump were done without using the PTA, so I cannot make a direct comparison. I think you are right on this.

I have tested. Apparently I get the same. The square of King's jump is highlighted even though the K is in check. But if I do that move, I get a long message with the moves, the code and starting by:

GameEnd That moves through or out of check

Use your browser's BACK button to go back to the previous page, then reload if necessary.

For general reference, here is the complete list of moves:

If I go back with my browser, I get the message "Ce document a expiré" that you understand probably. But even though this is discouraging to continue, there is also a button "retry" and if I retry I finally get the game just before the King's jump. Indeed, it is then possible to continue to play.

So I think that as you mean, the problem is disturbing but rather cosmetic. If they know what is happening, the players can continue to play, which is the major point.

Thanks again.

Extra information about Clue Chess that may or may not be relevant:

• The board is 25x25, with special spaces for the Rooms and blacked-out spaces around the players' starting areas (except in front).
• Similar to regular Clue(do), there can be anywhere from 2 to 8 players.
• There will be only one of each weapon; they start neutral, in starting places on the board.
• When a player captures a weapon piece, that player's King gains the abiltiies of that piece.
  • There will be no limit on how many weapons the King can carry (as of this moment, anyway).
  • I haven't fully decided yet what happens to the weapons when the King is captured. The King itself is returned to its starting square, and I'm inclined to do the same with the weapons, though I may decide on something else.
• It may or may not be allowed to move the weapons as independent, "neutral" pieces. If it is, it'll be move-without-capture only.

Feedback on these rules wouldn't be entirely unwelcome, though for now I want to focus on selecting the eighth weapon.

Yes. The only way to prevent Ga10 is to move the Limping Queen on a-file. I just prefer a setup where white can't force the corner pieces to move from the start since they can castle.

Ishskwaday by Stuart Spence, AKA Zulban

275. Yey. This is another piece that I built based on a letter of the Tifinagh, and it's one that I'm a little surprised I haven't alraedy posted.

Based on the Berber letter ⴻ, Yey moves one space sideways, or leaps two spaces vertically. If the latter move captures a piece, it may then move without capture from there to any adjacent space. (sW[vD?a(b)K])

I think that this would be an interesting piece to use as a special Pawn, promoted Pawn, or "superpawn."

Sorry, I was out of town for a few days, and had no time to figure out the answer on this one.

The presets you compare with were not automated through the PTA, so there is no reason why these should behave the same.

Are you sure the game ends when the King moves out of check? Normally an illegal move should not terminate the game; it should just be refused (in this case with the message you quote), and then through using the browser 'back' button you should be able to retry another move. This is also what happens if you insist moving a piece to a non-highlighted destination.

If this is the case the only thing that isn't working exactly as it should is the highlighting: the King jumps get highlighted even if they are forbidden because of check. But there is no way to exploit this; in the end legality is enforced by refusing the move.

The way the PTA-generated GAME code enforces 'not out of check' rules is by having the potentially forbidden moves generate e.p. rights on the square of origin. Using such a move then would allow the opponent to capture the moved piece (i.e. the King) en passant, making the move illegal.

Unfortunately the 'accelerated check test' used for determining the legality of the moves to highlight (in order to prevent this from becoming excruciatingly slow for large games) doesn't detect this: it generates all opponent moves from the current position to mark squares that are under attack on the board. And then only rejects King moves that go to such an attacked square. And in this case the problem is not that the destination is attacked, but that the origin is attacked.

I suppose I could solve this in the accelerated check test by suppressing the virginity of a King that is in check during the generation of the highlights.

[Edit] I now changed the move generator to suppress initial moves of a piece that should not move out of check, when it is in check during the accelerated check test. Please test if this solves the problem.

Since the fairychess include file uses a shortcode to display pieces, I changed how the shortcode works instead of any code in the fairychess include file. I modified it to include WIDTH and HEIGHT values in the IMG tag when the image is an SVG image. These will be equal to $width and $height when these variables have values, as they usually do in Game Courier, and they will be 50 otherwise.

It looks like replacing the corner piece with Limping Queen allows white to do 1.c6 then 2.Ga10. Looks like I have to change it again.

If this Limping Queen is the one that I posted in PotD a few days ago, I'm sorry I missed it.

(I also don't see how the nature of the corner piece affects the above opening.)

If I remember correctly, the PTA does that for all special King moves, such as castling.

Is it a matter of skill or a matter or perceived randomness?

I would ask that same question about nightriders, but they seem popular anyway. If I'm understanding you, the problem with Jokers is that they're too easy to exchange favorably because they're much stronger at the start than the end. I would expect that to be less of a problem with a very large game, since both players would have more opportunities to use their jokers.

If you're using it in a different armies game, the most important thing would be to have a joker in every army. Do you have an interactive diagram to show an example of a game where this piece might not work?

I repost this message which was probably missed:

@ HG Muller: I have a problem that I can't solve. In many of my variants I have a rule of King's leap to a 2nd square replacing castling. As for regular castling, the King may not leap when it is under check. It works fine for Metamachy, Zanzibar, Maasai, Terachess II, etc. But in Bigorra, the GC would let a CHECKED King leap to a 2nd-square! Actually, it marks the destination square as a possible move, but if the player does it (so, violating the real rule), the game ends with an error message saying the King has moved out of chess.

Why the Bigorra GC is behaving like that whereas Metamachy or Terachess II for example don't have this behaviour, I don't know. I would like to fix that bug in Bigorra GC but I don't know what to do.

I ask you because that GC had been made with the PTA from the ID. Could you please have a look on that GC?

https://www.chessvariants.com/play/pbm/play.php?game=Bigorra&settings=Default-PTA

Thank you very much

The author, HaruN Y, has updated this page.

The author, HaruN Y, has updated this page.

I have read Eric Silverman's thoughts on powerful pieces now. Trouble with the joker is that it's value is very volatile. In the beginning it is very powerful though. One could argue that maneuvering him it is a matter of skill. This, actually is my conundrum: Is it a matter of skill or a matter or perceived randomness?

By larger boards I mean strictly larger than 8x8. Even in 10x10(where I have 13 piece types) handling the enemy joker is quite tricky. 12x12 could work, too. But larger boards would make games impossible to play if the joker is present. Just imagine Tenjiku shogi with one or God forbid more jokers.

As I have said in my previous comment I have a large palette of piece types represented. This makes things even more complicated.

It could also be that I worry too much, but who knows.

It looks like replacing the corner piece with Limping Queen allows white to do 1.c6 then 2.Ga10. Looks like I have to change it again.

There's already an Interactive Diagram on the page but

This one is also with shuffle.

When fairychess is allowed to fill in the rules section for a game that uses svg piece images, some of the pieces end up being much larger than the others. This seems to be because the image is sized according to the piece name, even if the name is very long. Having the css explicitly set the image size could solve this.

I'd call them Berlin Peon/Anti-Peon & Berlin Storz Pawn/Anti-Storz Pawn. Right Anti-Pawn & Left Anti-Pawn would be rmFrcW & lmFlcW.

Have you read Eric Silverman's thoughts on poweful pieces? He suggests that it's good to have a few super pieces that dominate the game.

When you say "larger boards" it's not clear if you're talking about the later mentioned 10x10 CWDA or something else. 10x10 doesn't seem large, and you did use the Joker on 10x10 and 12x12 already. If you are talking about something truly larger than 12x12, the obvious way is to have the Joker start at the back and make sure the average piece strength isn't too high.

If you're worried about the Joker dominating the game by being too powerful, don't forget that if it's really that strong the players would be reluctant to trade it away. In that way, strong pieces can be self-balancing.

I could imagine it possibly being a problem if the Joker loses strength quickly so that there's a large advantage in deploying one's Joker first, which would naturally favor the first to move. If that is a problem, a way to counter it would be to carefully choose the moves of the other pieces. Perhaps have more sliding or other blockable moves instead of leaping moves, to allow for pawns to reveal attacks on the Joker by weaker pieces that could be exchanged for it. Another way is to make sure that pieces have simple moves so that a player would be likely to have good options that limit the Joker.

Given that the practice of "Left" and "Right" has a history in Shogi -- where simply "Left" and "Right" are used in all English translations of which I'm aware* -- I think I'll leave that much as it is.

On the same principle, since those names refer to position, I do think it'd be better to switch the two as far as their moves.

*Allowing that I've been at this for a relatively short time.

I have now updated Mobile Detect to 4.8.06. Since it works differently than the old version, mobile detection was a bit wonky until I got it working correctly.

Given that I usually call for "left" and "right" to be for placement, it may be better to reverse these moves. Opinions on that question are welcome.

My opinion is, don't leave it ambiguous! Even if you use it consistently it will be confusing. If the name refers to the location make it something like "Left Side Berolina Pawn" and if it refers to direction make it "Leftwards Berolina Pawn".

That's now corrected.

I see

And maybe you’ll make text in brown dark mode if not whiter but bit brighter?

Most of the Movement/Promotion adjustments have been made. The only point I'm having trouble with is finding a way to extend the number of places for hands. I'd probably have to override the drop model, but I'm not sure I could do it quickly on my own. Anyway, for the time being, it's a good way to get familiar with the rules.

@Daniel: thanks. They are well done and they fit with the set. I hope editors will add them.

But with shuffle.

I have updated PHP to 8.1.28, and I will be going over the error logs for things I have to change to keep up with this new version. If anything stops working, let me know.

try now

For me, light brown text in brown Dark mode is significantly less readable.

That's going to vary with the device and the person. That's why there is now a third color scheme.

For me, light brown text in brown Dark mode is significantly less readable. And comments’ text is still white and readable.

Forget about running the games on ChessV even without the Joker. ChessV does not do riders bent after the second step either. It seems y it is not supported.

@Daniel: your page is only visible by editors

I mean trivial in checkmating.

@François Houdebert,

I saw your Jocly implementation for Chu Seireigi. It works much better than it used to.

I went through and tested everything, and here is a comprehensive list of all known errors that I found:

-------------------------------
Piece Movement/Promotion Errors
-------------------------------

Ram's-Head Soldier and Prancing Stag are not forced to promote when reaching the last rank (these pieces must promote on last rank)

Strong Bear (Starting and Promoted) still has its old move (should move one square diagonally or sideways)

Whale is missing its forward orthogonal step

Flying Swallow is not forced to promote when reaching the last two ranks (this piece must promote on last two ranks)

White Golden Bird is missing its sideways orthogonal leaps, Black Golden Bird is missing its (1,-2) leap from White's perspective

Kirin promotes to Lion (should promote to Bishop) and White Kirin moves has extra (2,2) leap in all directions (should move as in Chu Shogi)

Phoenix promotes to Queen (should promote to Rook)

-------------------------------
Board Setup Errors
-------------------------------

There currently aren't enough spaces in the hand to accommodate all the droppable piece types (there are 19 in total). You will need a second column of hand spaces on each side to account for this.

Black Running Leopard and Black Running Wolf are swapped from where they should be in the initial setup.

Why is the 'Heavenly Tetrarch' trivial?!

Oh, I had downloaded the zrf and looked at it on zillions, if it isn't clear in description, it should be made clear lol.

Good work pointing that out.

This Thread is about games that contain the joker(imitator, jester, fool) piece. The joker piece is here a piece that does not have a move of it's own but borrows the last move of the opponent. It has no other abilities (unlike the one in omega chess), not even double pawn move, en passant or promotion, ability to castle etc. .

The main problem I am facing is that with increased number of piece types (which comes naturally on larger boards) it becomes increasingly powerful. I fear it becomes game breaking. I'm stuck in designing my new games as this piece is also difficult to program (more on this later). Each of the games I am designing has a heavy cavalry piece pair and a light cavalry piece (leapers- their exact abilities are not important now), a bishop pair, a rook pair, a war wagon (as I have renamed the well known falcon), a bent rider, a leaper+slider compound, a queen and of course the royal king. What I have observed by playing against the interactive diagram is that after some pawns and minors are exchanged the joker finds rather easily a central or near central position where it seems almighty. True that the opponent has a joker, too, but it is quite often when one joker paralyzes more pieces than the other. So to me it seems that the joker inserts in the game more a random thing than a good strategy reward. I have to mention that in orthodox chess I have a 1500 rating after the recent increase. Probably stronger players will feel differently. I though of having instead of one all imitating joker to have one that has it's power updated when the enemy moves a light piece and one that has it's power updated when the opponent moves a heavy piece. But this makes a game that already has a steep learning curve into something with an even greater learning curve. I'm writing this in hope for new opinions about including joker in increasingly large games.

On the programming side of things, games that have jokers are more difficult to program. And not because it's move power is difficult to program. I was able to go myself as far, but not further. It is a piece extremely difficult to evaluate. It has been proposed here to aproximate the piece value with the average strength of the enemy pieces. But this does not do it justice. The number of enemy piece types should play a role especially in games where there are many types of piece types like in those I'm designing as mentioned above (riders, leapers, pathers, leapers+riders, bent riders etc.). Moreover chessV does not accept a joker imitating a war wagon (falcon). Some I'm stock only with the interactive diagram which is a poorer AI. I know HG works on something cooler in C++ if I'm not mistaking but this could take many months maybe years.

More I'm thinking of a 10x10 CWDA with jokers. But imitating an opponent's move does not seem like CWDA to me. So I'd go for a transferrer that trasfers the move of a fibnif to a waffle for example. All of these are reasons for why I'm contemplating to take out the joker and replace it with a more normal piece.

But I have reserves to doing that also. First as I have said above I am a merely 1500 chess player. What if introducing the joker is brilliant but I just can't see it. What I find random it is actually strategic for a better player. A NNUE program for example. Also the joker is fun and it offers many tactical possibilities.

For now the best course of action seems to me to make simulations with ChessV without a joker, say jokerless varaints of the variant. That to find out the real piece values when the joker is not involved. An then when HG's more sofisticated program becomes available, try to look at games with joker (never jokers, as many jokers also make each joker more powerful) and see if having a joker makes the games more strategic and tactical, or it makes the game feel more random.

I did not use the darker text color in globalindex.css, which the homepage uses, because it is mainly intended for making it easier to read long passages of text, which the homepage and other index pages do not have. It should affect text in lists if they are not links, but all the examples you gave of lists were filled with links. If you prefer a more high contrast display with white text on a dark background, you can use the Darker color scheme.

the description of Treacherous Fox needs an update

I modified it :

could these be of interest too?

@SYG: "is it possible to perform a Bishop switch maneuver TWICE? ". The answer is in the short text: "The player would have four ways to do the adjustment, but he is only allowed to do it one time throughout the game".

It could have been made clearer, but it's not so difficult to find: locusts spawn in the square vacated by a moving king, or result from the demotion of a capturing Leo

Should I replace Heavenly Tetrarch with piece that won't be as trivial?

Actually, according to the article on the Dalai Lama:

The name "Dalai Lama" is a combination of the Mongolic word dalai meaning "ocean" or "great" (coming from Mongolian title Dalaiyin qan or Dalaiin khan, translated as Gyatso or rgya-mtsho in Tibetan) and the Tibetan word བླ་མ་ (bla-ma) meaning "master, guru".

The Buddhist Lama and the Assyrian Lama just happen to be two words from different languages that happen to sound the same, no more related to each other than either is to the animal classification of llama.

Nice to see a game with the Locust in it and it's a great idea too, well done.

It's not clear from the rules how the Locusts enter the game.